An idea

Mode 7 and Determinance discussion

Moderator: Admins

User avatar
Paul
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Oxford

An idea

Postby Paul » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:47 am

Hi guys,

I'm considering offering a free download of Determinance to all our existing customers so that they can give it away to their friends and encourage them to play. Retail is still taking a while to come through and I'd like to give the server population a boost. Would that be something you'd be interested in doing?
Paul Kilduff-Taylor

Mode 7 Games
User avatar
BuboNulus
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:45 pm

Re: An idea

Postby BuboNulus » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:56 pm

Yummi!

Sounds like a good idea to me.
User avatar
Paul
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Oxford

Re: An idea

Postby Paul » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:58 pm

Ok, any other takers? Bear in mind that we're just considering this idea so no promises yet! Probably it would be more sensible to give copies to active players rather than to just hand them out willy nilly as I IMPLIED.
Paul Kilduff-Taylor

Mode 7 Games
udm
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:29 pm

Re: An idea

Postby udm » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:46 am

I think you guys will be making a loss by doing so. People aren't going to be loyal customers, they're just going to try it out for a while, and say "cool, but I'll still go back to xxxx game anyway". You're only opening yourself up to piracy and other forms of exploitation

You have to ask yourselves who's the target audience you want to attract, and thus create a specific campaign to boost the community's population. Look at indie 4X Space Strategy games - Galactic Civ for example. They attracted 4X fans by creating a thorough game that has features to boast about. Determinance's launch seems to be a little halfway there. It's got the core gameplay, it's more or less polished, but what it doesn't have is enough to keep sword fighting fans interested. Those looking for some toe to toe sword fighting may not be getting it because it involves lots of dodging and less parrying, even for that new game mode whose name I forgot

IMO you guys should stay in the dark, focus entirely on creating something exciting, and make the game explode in the indie community. I've been doing research on marketing, and I figured this has been the main reason why certain games bloom and certain games go boom (Omega Syndrome for example). You need to advertise on what makes the game tick, because gamers generally don't look at the price tag unless it really is steep. In fact, you might say that the higher the price, the more quality is expected out of it - same for vice versa. Offering Determinance free to a group could, to some people, mean it's made of cheapskate quality, and we know it's not; rather, it's just an incomplete game
User avatar
Paul
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Oxford

Re: An idea

Postby Paul » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:30 pm

What we've decided to do instead of my original plan is partner up with http://www.gamedujour.com/ and offer Determinance for half-price on a single day. I'd like this to have a significant impact, and I know it won't hurt sales in any way.

If you've got friends who you'd like to play Determinance with, get them to buy the game on January 17th from Game Du Jour.

Udm, the rationale for potentially giving copies of the game away to long-term trusted customers to share with their friends is a way of short-circuiting that hoary old perception-of-value problem you mentioned.

Our next game, which we're working on right now, is certainly a lot more targeted than Determinance, so we're already addressing that issue.
Paul Kilduff-Taylor

Mode 7 Games
udm
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:29 pm

Re: An idea

Postby udm » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:03 am

Does this mean Determinance won't be updated then? Sad
User avatar
Omroth
Site Admin
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:07 pm

Re: An idea

Postby Omroth » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:19 pm

Hey UDM.

We're a small team and most of our efforts are going into our DS game right now. I still have a lot of things I want to do with Determinance, but I can't promise any target for that. We recently released a big update (loads of new weapons, new game mode, online rankings, modability) and it doesn't appear to have had any impact on our community size, so that's pretty unmotivating.

Ian
udm
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:29 pm

Re: An idea

Postby udm » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:36 pm

Yeah I know what you mean. I think people probably expect something else, like a singleplayer mode, or other forms of content

It's too bad, because one of the reasons why I bought DT was due to the fact that i'd hoped it would be a bigger game than what it is. But yeah, I understand that one of the reasons why the game isn't expanding as much as we'd hoped is because of the small team size. I think you guys are fantastic; for a small team, consisting of one PR manager and one coder/modeller/animator/texturer, it's amazing how much work has been done. I really hope you guys don't get dismayed or lose hope, really. I've seen poorer game concepts out there with more success; it just sucks Sad. Well maybe DT just needs a rest now, and maybe it can be updated in future when there's more motivation to do so!
User avatar
Paul
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Oxford

Re: An idea

Postby Paul » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:00 pm

Cheers udm! We're more like one megalomaniacal designer / programmer; one business guy / tester / musician; small team of independent contractors (art etc.), but anyway...

I didn't mean this thread to turn into a kind of Determinance requiem, though. Although Ian was disappointed that we didn't get more of a reaction to the update, we weren't really doing active promotion of the game at the time it came out: the update was really put together for our retail release, which is still yet to come.

Having retail out of our hands led us to slightly back off on Determinance while we worked on other things - I made a resolution to come to the forums more this year and try to see what the community we DO have is up to. I really enjoyed things like the Duel Arena tournament, and getting people involved a bit, and I still think that when the game comes out at retail we'll have a bit of an upswing in server population (clearly the thing that's holding us back).

It's hard for us to be actively involved with Determinance, though, because it does show us a lot of things that we didn't do right. This is especially difficult for Ian as a designer: it's really like looking at the early sketches you did when you were learning to draw, or the first short story you ever wrote that got published. Everyone else can enjoy it and see the good sides, but you're mostly concentrating on what you learned from it in order to make something better.

Personally, I think Determinance still stands up incredibly strongly in this really specific way that it's quite hard for people to get to - it's been a huge challenge learning to do marketing with a product like that. I still REALLY enjoy playing the game each time I get to have a go against someone human (!), though, so that keeps me motivated. But yeah, we've definitely decided to fix the problems with Determinance in the next game, rather than in Determinance.

Anyway, I still think there's life in the old beast yet...the Innovation award proves that. I still think Determinance will get closer to where we envisaged it over this coming year. I'm definitely proud of the work we did on it (actually, come to think of it, it is sometimes a bit hard for me to listen to the music because it sounds pretty amateurish by my current standards), so I'll continue to do all I can to get more players and get the message out.
Paul Kilduff-Taylor

Mode 7 Games
User avatar
Faxmachinen
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:27 pm
Location: Norway

Re: An idea

Postby Faxmachinen » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:22 am

Paul wrote:If you've got friends who you'd like to play Determinance with, get them to buy the game on January 17th from Game Du Jour.

Why wasn't this announced in the blog? Even if I only come here once a month, I still check my RSS feeds every day.

Well, you'd better announce when DT goes retail at least, because that's when I'll be back.
User avatar
Paul
Posts: 685
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:33 pm
Location: Oxford

Re: An idea

Postby Paul » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:15 am

Well it's looking like the release dates are going to be somewhat random and we're not going to hear about them too far in advance, but as I mentioned elsewhere DT has launched in Italy.
Paul Kilduff-Taylor

Mode 7 Games
richygorgan
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:32 pm
Location: UK

Re: An idea

Postby richygorgan » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:03 pm

Hate to say it but im very sure that most people want:
(1) Walking, basicly ground combat with buildings
(2) Campaign with a detailed story with cinematics

But a team of your size that would be to hard to do.
"one illustrious disciple " - Ian
User avatar
Faxmachinen
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:27 pm
Location: Norway

Re: An idea

Postby Faxmachinen » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:24 pm

I'd much rather have someone to play with.
merglasch
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:02 pm
Location: Germany

Re: An idea

Postby merglasch » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:50 am

I also think that's more the problem..it's not the game, just too few gamers...
Also if your new you log in and there is nobody ingame it looks pretty dead.Most people don't even think of usin the irc channel... Confused
---------------------------
Sorry for any bad english!
Sorry for any mistakes!!!
take them!you can have them!^^
--Blood for the Blood-God---
---------f***k die Waldfee-
udm
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:29 pm

Re: An idea

Postby udm » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:28 pm

I gave up on this game long ago. Had high hopes for it; being the spiritual successor to DBTS, it had such great potential, but things just went wrong. I'm not pointing fingers, I just think that things could have been different

O well, at least there are bots in-game

Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users