*Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

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Lyx
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby Lyx » Wed May 19, 2010 2:31 pm

PaulC2K wrote:1) Having someone stand right at a window aiming out, AI off at an angle say >45', he walks towards window and just shoots while my guy stands there in a deep sleep, which quickly becomes a very deep sleep.

Is the enemy unit in the field of view of your unit (check the cone)? If not, your unit will get killed. Yes, you could argue that he should still be able to react "after the fact", but it wouldn't change the outcome: If someone way outside of where you are looking attacks you, you lose initiative and will therefore probably lose - so even though it may not "look" realistic, the outcome is the same - you lose. How to prevent it? Don't stand too close to the window - check the FOV-cone to be sure you cover it completely.

2) My last game, 2 vs 1, both in open area but with a room for cover between us. Both my units are to the AIs SW, i send 1 running & ignoring AI to get behind additional cover, and while he's drawing the attention of the AI who opens fire, my other guy is moving through the room directly below the AI and should have an easy kill. Instead, the decoy works perfectly drawing fire from the AI, my other guy moves into place but stops to shoot despite there being a wall between them (theres also a window there, but no direct line of sight) and after the AI joins in the firing it shoots through the wall killing my guy.

I don't understand your description.
Lyx: "Wot? Why do i lose that one?"
Chem: " if(playerIsLyx()) chanceOfWinning *= 0.3f;"
Lyx: "Damnit om!"
PaulC2K
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby PaulC2K » Wed May 19, 2010 4:22 pm

Lyx wrote:Is the enemy unit in the field of view of your unit (check the cone)? If not, your unit will get killed. Yes, you could argue that he should still be able to react "after the fact", but it wouldn't change the outcome: If someone way outside of where you are looking attacks you, you lose initiative and will therefore probably lose - so even though it may not "look" realistic, the outcome is the same - you lose. How to prevent it? Don't stand too close to the window - check the FOV-cone to be sure you cover it completely.
Unless theres a way of seeing exactly what my guy can & cant see, which i havent found (and wasnt covered in the tutorial) then in terms of the Aim area, he was most definately in there. Im playing vs AI in what i gather is a Light game, so i can see everything and he was the only target to focus on for this unit. He should have been fully aware of him. It was like the AI units visable angle was better than mine. The AI was coming in at an angle of around 45 degree from the window, but i'd guess both had aiming focused on the other, yet the AI could shoot at my guy while mine was helpless.

Lyx wrote:I don't understand your description.
I've attached a diagram for this issue.
FS_Issue.png
FS_Issue.png (6.66 KiB) Viewed 7870 times

0.00
Unit A is my decoy, he's set to run to hide behind cover and ignore the AI, he's simply there to draw fire and allow B to move into position.
Unit B is set to move in for the kill, at the doorway he's set to aim at the AI unit and move towards the window.
AI is sat waiting

2.50
Unit A is in line of sight of AI, but keeps running
Unit B is at the doorway
AI fires at Unit A

5.00
Unit A is safe
Unit B gets to the doorway, stops there and decides to start shooting at the AI who has no line of sight to the AI.
AI instantly switches attention from Unit A to B and is shooting at Unit B before Unit B has fired his first shot. AI get the kill on 3rd bullet, by shooting through the room wall.
Lyx
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby Lyx » Wed May 19, 2010 9:28 pm

PaulC2K wrote:Unless theres a way of seeing exactly what my guy can & cant see, which i havent found (and wasnt covered in the tutorial) then in terms of the Aim area, he was most definately in there. Im playing vs AI in what i gather is a Light game, so i can see everything and he was the only target to focus on for this unit. He should have been fully aware of him. It was like the AI units visable angle was better than mine. The AI was coming in at an angle of around 45 degree from the window, but i'd guess both had aiming focused on the other, yet the AI could shoot at my guy while mine was helpless.

This either sounds like a bug which i have experienced too a while ago, or the other unit was barely out of your unit's FOV. There are two ways to know what you can see - the first is that 100degree cone in front of a unit when you select it - obviously, obstacles modify what a unit can actually see - to check this, select any unit or WP, then hold the V key, and move the mouse around: The dotted line will vanish whenever what you are pointing at is not visible to this unit.


I've attached a diagram for this issue.
...

Thats definatelly a bug, and additionally perhaps the aimbonus mechanics at work (see: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1915 )
Lyx: "Wot? Why do i lose that one?"
Chem: " if(playerIsLyx()) chanceOfWinning *= 0.3f;"
Lyx: "Damnit om!"
Lyx
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:28 pm

Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby Lyx » Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:36 am

Updated. Changes:

- Updated info on the sniper (he no longer sucks that much)
- Added hints about how to defend against each unittype
- Added hint to prefer extermination on first multiplayer games
because of simple rules, and minimizing score-loss.
- Added info about T-hotkey
Lyx: "Wot? Why do i lose that one?"
Chem: " if(playerIsLyx()) chanceOfWinning *= 0.3f;"
Lyx: "Damnit om!"
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Boots
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Location: Manchester UK

Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby Boots » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:47 am

I would like to know the reason for the 5 turn limit on single play maps, it can make things a bit boring if you are winning.
Sixth
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:03 pm

Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby Sixth » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:42 pm

Hey guys I just made a couple of short introduction tutorial videos illustrating the controls and how to play generally.

Please take a look and let me know if it's alright!

Hoping to move into casting 1v1s but not really sure how to go about it as the games are so short, need to do a turn by turn analysis i think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjx-4SVOoQ

Feedback is welcome and desired.

Cheers,
Sixth

PS: Also there's some starcraft VODs there if you're into that.
wonderhero
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby wonderhero » Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:44 pm

I've just heard of this game, I watched some movies and looks very nice but before I buy it I want to know some things important for my strategy. Also I want 100% accurate answers:

1. Is there a manual with values for “aim time”, “reaction time”, vision range, grenade radius, bullet speed, armor value, explosion damage, weapon accuracy, wall strength and so on ?

2. Is there a possibility to calculate the times for aiming shots:
Suppose we know the aim time for a sniper let say 2.5 sec. This sniper stay at opportunity fire (aim order I guess) and he see the target at moment 0 sec:
- What time the sniper start fire ?
- Can I calculate the distance from unit to target to know what time the bullet hit the target ?
- If the target is still alive and seen, what time the second bullet pull out ? After end of second aim time (5 sec) or sooner ?
- What is the reaction time for a shooter being at FREE fire (not opportunity fire) and he see a new enemy unit ?
- If the target disappeared at moment 1 sec and reappeared at moment 2 sec, the sniper lose the target and begin another aim shot after 2.5 sec ?

3. Is there a way to allow line of sight testing from any point to any point ? (not just order line)
4. Is a way to view full line of sight for the current unit ?
5. Is there a command for "Retreat on Sight new enemy unit" (backtrack to the last "order point" if you spot a new enemy unit) ?

Thank you
Radu
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Omroth
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby Omroth » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:43 pm

Hi Wonderhero.

The answer to the first two questions is "no", but you must understand that Frozen Synapse allows you to "simulate" the turn endlessly, *including* giving plans to your enemies - this allows you to get your plan right.

3. Is there a way to allow line of sight testing from any point to any point ? (not just order line)

No, you do need to put a waypoint where you want to do LOS from.

4. Is a way to view full line of sight for the current unit ?

There isn't. We had that in but found that it took away some of the strategy... but it was a close decision.

5. Is there a command for "Retreat on Sight new enemy unit" (backtrack to the last "order point" if you spot a new enemy unit) ?

No. The reason for this is that I feel quite strongly that there should be no "react in-turn" orders. With these orders, you could spend forever making a solution to every possible enemy plan. While this would be cool in a game, it didn't fit with FS - the person who spent half an hour doing their plan would always have the advantage, and that removed some of the fun. We did extensive testing with both.
wonderhero
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby wonderhero » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:28 pm

Thank you Omroth for answers.

Frozen Synapse allows you to "simulate" the turn endlessly

To find out what the values are from testing ? ...hmm I prefer rather to read them from manual.
No calculation = no tactic = no fun for my point of view :(

No, you do need to put a waypoint where you want to do LOS from.

So I need to use a slide rule on my monitor.

Is a way to view full line of sight for the current unit ?

There isn't. We had that in but found that it took away some of the strategy...

:shock: Did you ever played Laser Squad Nemesis ?

I feel quite strongly that there should be no "react in-turn" orders.

You should play LSN to know how can this be a strong element of strategy.
I never criticize Julian Gallop's strategy. He is impeccable and we have to learn something from him.

the person who spent half an hour doing their plan would always have the advantage, and that removed some of the fun

I thing if you want to be a good strategic player you must spend enough time to think well and calculate to make a good plan. Not half an hour, but one or two hours for each turn. THIS is fun for me. RUSH and LUCK we find in many others games.

Thank you again!
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Omroth
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby Omroth » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:29 am

Hey, thanks for the feedback.

No ruler - you hold a key and you get a LOS indicator to your cursor.

I've played a lot of - and am a big fan of - LSN. I also have a HUGE amount of respect for Julian Gollop. But FS is a different game. If you're thinking you need a manual to get tactics in FS, I don't agree - it's a game about tactics which are both accessible and deep. If that seems impossible, please wait for the demo and you'll be able to see what it's like.
wonderhero
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby wonderhero » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:00 pm

OK, you made me curios and I will wait for the demo.
Thank you
zxc
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby zxc » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:29 pm

wonderhero wrote:I thing if you want to be a good strategic player you must spend enough time to think well and calculate to make a good plan. Not half an hour, but one or two hours for each turn.

:shock: I thought I was the only one who spent an hour or two on each turn (on the more complex boards).
MageKing17
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby MageKing17 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:20 pm

I strongly agree that there shouldn't be "conditional" orders, because I'm the kind of player who would spend ten hours making the perfect plan (well, actually, I'd try to spend ten hours, then get impatient and frustrated because I'm a perfectionist and the plan would never be truly perfect, so I'd rush this or that in the name of expediency, and then that single rushed point would get my units killed...), and I really like FS the way it is; you have to make do with limited resources (time, turn limit, simplistic orders, and one-shot kills) to accomplish your objectives, and that requires a lot more skill than micromanaging with contingency plans for every single possibility.
zxc
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby zxc » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:31 am

MageKing17 wrote:I strongly agree that there shouldn't be "conditional" orders, because I'm the kind of player who would spend ten hours making the perfect plan (well, actually, I'd try to spend ten hours, then get impatient and frustrated because I'm a perfectionist and the plan would never be truly perfect, so I'd rush this or that in the name of expediency, and then that single rushed point would get my units killed...), and I really like FS the way it is; you have to make do with limited resources (time, turn limit, simplistic orders, and one-shot kills) to accomplish your objectives, and that requires a lot more skill than micromanaging with contingency plans for every single possibility.


I have to agree. What I sometimes do is, once my plan is done, I set my opponent's plan to be the best counter possible to my plan, and then if it's not too bad for me, I will (probably) go along with it. Still, prediction plays a large role in what the best plan may be. While the 'perfect plan' may fare the best against the entire range of your opponent's plans, a simple counter to what you predict your opponent will do is better if you can actually make that prediction. I find that almost all my opponents go for obvious moves, and that all my time spent experimenting with ridiculously psychic opponent plans all goes to waste.

Conditional orders would strongly negate the utility of accurate prediction I think, and it would make it impossible to see what's really going on in a replay as well.
wonderhero
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Re: *Unofficial* Intro & Gameplay Hints For New Players

Postby wonderhero » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:18 pm

I see your points.
Anyway after I watched a good FS movie I realized I can calculate unit speed, reaction time and the most importing thing: THE TIME it will take for a enemy unit to reach a specific place.

Somebody told me that for most league games you can't choose own troop and the team is given randomly!!! :shock:
I consider this a huge disadvantage. Where is the balance if you get only machine guns or snipers and the opponent get each type of unit ???


BTW Splendid soundtrack!!!

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