Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

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bossblood
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Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by bossblood » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:32 pm

I must admit the game looks great and the reviews are great but I can't justify purchasing 2 copies of a game for myself. I know I can give a copy to a friend and so on but it just isn't right. I want one copy, I only need copy, I am only going to buy one copy. Sorry Mode 7 but I won't be buying your game based solely on your marketing and sales strategy.
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icebrain
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by icebrain » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:46 pm

Others are going to tell you that you should see it this way: you get a second copy for free for the price of one, and it is true because in the near future the free copy will be removed and the price will stay the same !
The thing is that, compared to the quality of more expensive and cheaper games, one copy of FS is not worth its full price of $25. And you don't get 2 for the price of 1 (because extra copies of a virtual good are useless), you get 1, and your eventual friend gets 1.
P.S. One doesn't pay for a concept but for the work behind it.
Last edited by icebrain on Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:01 am, edited 4 times in total.

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bossblood
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by bossblood » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:21 pm

I can understand paying for the work behind the game but it seems like the damage has been done at this point, extremely poor business decision on their part. If they decide to go back to full price for one key people will start complaining, same as I am complaining now about having to purchase 2 keys now. They dug themselves a hole they can't get out of without people complaining and it is their own fault, they created a catch-22. Nearly every single indie game drops in price as sales drop. So when I can but a single key on Steam for 1/4 of what they want now I will pick up a copy. It won't be far off.
MissDjax
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by MissDjax » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:32 am

I agree... I am not a friend of that system with a free copy... I am not the "youngest" and I don't really have friends whom I could give the free copy so I had to think twice before buying the game since 25 bucks isn't really cheap for a indie game.
There isn't any demo out and I can't rely on videos so I downloaded the game which allowed me to play offline. I enjoyed it and bought it.
Imo you should make this game free to play offline and pay for the key to play online. I don't think that many people buy this game for offline gaming anyway. I am pretty sure you would earn more money like this and the online community would raise pretty fast.
Kitsune
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Kitsune » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:28 am

I think a lot of people enjoyed the business model actually. I was willing to pay $20 for the game itself and the extra copy was a nice touch (especially because I gave it to a friend who actually has really gotten into it and wouldn't have otherwise, kinda nice).

Different strokes for different folks. Worse comes to worse, find someone with which to split the costs.

(Note: If you don't think the game is worth at least $10, then there's not much they can really do at the moment... :/ )
Scoregraphic
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Scoregraphic » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:25 am

I think the idea behind is you have a friend to start with and learn the basic principles of the game. It may be disappointing to play against top players at first because you will likely lose anyway. I also was unsure at first if I should buy the game (in beta!) as I didn't know whom to give the second key to. I did pay (soundtrack version) and I never regretted. I showed the game to a friend months later and he was excited. I gifted him my second key. I think the price for an indie is high enough, but it's definitely worth it. It's a long time since I enjoyed a game that much. So my advice is to buy the game and drink 2 beers less next weekend and everything will be fine!
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rodeoclown
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by rodeoclown » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:49 pm

It's on sale on Steam today, so perhaps buy it now, and you won't feel like you've spent more than you need to.
wrigley
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by wrigley » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:36 pm

I have to admit that I've never heard of someone having the perception that a buy one, get one free promotion is considered as being forced to purchase two items. It's interesting how different each person's perceptions are.

I looked at it as the game having a $20 price tag, and a second key was free (or, buy one, get one free).

There's nothing wrong with someone having the view that $20 for the game is too much (or, any price point for any item), but I do admit that I am surprised that being given something additional at the point of purchase is viewed as being forced to buy something.

I would imagine that the theory behind the buy one/get one promotion is that you double the exposure based on an initial rate of sale + additional distribution, with the hope that the game is strong enough to lead to even more word-of-mouth promotion, thereby extending the sales life of the product. I also would imagine that once the devs feel that the momentum has worn off, or if the promotional idea didn't work as anticipated, they will eventually eliminate the buy one/get one aspect and may even reduce the price.

For what it's worth, I haven't had the game for long and haven't played a ton of MP games either yet, but I already feel I received more than my money's worth.

To each their own, I guess.
tolagali
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by tolagali » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:49 am

You get what you pay for, $24.99 for two copies of the game. A single copy ought therefore to be priced at $12.5. "Wait!", you say. "This is a special offer! In the future you will not get that free copy and the price will stay the same!" Okay, what you are saying here is that a single copy is currently priced at $12.5 whereas in the future the price will double. If you disagree you are either a victim of, or a proponent of simple psychological marketing.

The so called "free copy for a friend" is just a "2 for 1" deal. You are not buying one product, you are buying two products at reduced individual pricing. It is a trick in the same manner that pricing the game at $24.99 instead of $25 is; It is dishonest and those responsible are treating (potential) customers as beings of inferior intellect. "Ha!", they say. "You are not smart enough to realize that the game ACTUALLY costs $25! We fooled you good, we did!"

Although I considered not doing it out of principle, I bought Frozen Synapse with a friend and I've done nothing but enjoyed it so far. Two copies of the game are worth $25 without a doubt.
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limavictor426
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by limavictor426 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:37 am

It always amazes me when someone bitches about paying less than £25.00 for any game. Get it in perspective.....its less than £25.00, I spent that on food last night. That dosnt cover the cost of my petrol to work and back. I got a bottle of Jack Daniels for £25.00 in the supermarket last week and was well pleased at the bargin price. Even the younger ones here will spend £25.00 on a night out. I took myself,my wife and 3 kids to see Kung Foo Panda 2 in 3D last week and spent £60. I got my car serviced last week and it cost £300 and it's only done 19000 miles,it costs me nearly £100 to fill the tank with fuel.
The people who make these games have to make a living. Most games of this nature charge a subscription. When the original playstation came out which was before the internet had really got going one game cost £25-£30 and no one thought twice about it. That was back in 1995. So what if you are buying two games or 200, personally I think it's a daft stratergy but you are still getting something that you will probably play for 100's of hours for peanuts!!!!!! Bottom line is if you want to play computer games then the money for development etc has to come from somewhere.
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
Thaddeus
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Thaddeus » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:47 am

limavictor426 wrote: When the original playstation came out which was before the internet had really got going one game cost £25-£30 and no one thought twice about it. That was back in 1995. So what if you are buying two games or 200, personally I think it's a daft stratergy but you are still getting something that you will probably play for 100's of hours for peanuts!!!!!! Bottom line is if you want to play computer games then the money for development etc has to come from somewhere.
The difference here is that while Frozen Synapse could've taken 5 years and 6,000 man-hours to finish (possible hyperbole), it isn't a AAA (triple A) game - which is what most of the games on consoles are... back then especially. Most indie games are created by small teams of 1-10 people whereas for most AAA games this number can reach easily over 50. Not to mention indie games usually have a niche - rather than a general/accessible - appeal to them which can often limit them greatly both development (fulfilling the niche by focusing less on other aspects) and player-base wise. For example, there's plenty of independent games that focus on game-play more than graphics; sometimes purely because they have no other option, sometimes because they like the look or because they want to do it in a specific style. This isn't always the case, of course, but it can be a big factor. Issues like this can lead to less profits and/or players at least in comparison to a more "mainstream" and accessible game like say, Assassin's Creed or some other bollocks. People often will judge a book by its cover and if it looks like a cheap game in their eyes ("ohhh the graphics look crap! this can't be worth $40") then they'll believe it's a cheap title in all sense of the word. Even if they'd wind up getting more hours out of it than the latest $60 4-hour-campaign-3-hours-tedious-multiplayer (or even worse, no multiplayer) big-hit title.

There's also a larger risk-factor at play with niche games. There's been plenty of times when I've purchased a game because it seemed like something I'd really enjoy only to be burnt by a lacklustre and incomplete title. Sure, this happens with any game but you usually know what you're getting with "blockbuster" titles. Which is, incidentally, exactly the reason why I never purchase big-name games in the first place... At least at full price :)

It's because of things like this - there's always plenty of other reasons too - that most indie games have a low sale-price in comparison to AAA games. A AAA game can retail for $60 even if it's a download-only title, but having an independent game over $30 - or even close to it for that matter - is rare and pushing it. While I understand the reason for Frozen Synapse's pricing (To be honest, I assume they priced it so because they realised that while they did have a quality game on their hands, the game appeals to a very, very specific audience) I do also understand peoples problems with the price.

I love the game and am glad I purchased it, but I did hesitate because of the price and only wound up getting it because of the Steam sale.
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limavictor426
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by limavictor426 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:44 pm

Personally I think this should have been done by subscription. Firstly it stops steam putting a brand new game up in the discount pile. Secondly, it encourages future development of the game. Thirdly it can be done at a lower price which stops all you tight arses bitching :lol:
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
Kitsune
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Kitsune » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:17 pm

tolagali wrote:You get what you pay for, $24.99 for two copies of the game. A single copy ought therefore to be priced at $12.5. "Wait!", you say. "This is a special offer! In the future you will not get that free copy and the price will stay the same!" Okay, what you are saying here is that a single copy is currently priced at $12.5 whereas in the future the price will double. If you disagree you are either a victim of, or a proponent of simple psychological marketing.

The so called "free copy for a friend" is just a "2 for 1" deal. You are not buying one product, you are buying two products at reduced individual pricing. It is a trick in the same manner that pricing the game at $24.99 instead of $25 is; It is dishonest and those responsible are treating (potential) customers as beings of inferior intellect. "Ha!", they say. "You are not smart enough to realize that the game ACTUALLY costs $25! We fooled you good, we did!"

Although I considered not doing it out of principle, I bought Frozen Synapse with a friend and I've done nothing but enjoyed it so far. Two copies of the game are worth $25 without a doubt.
Not necessarily. Buying two instead of just one usually means you get a discount (buying in bulk basically), which would mean a single copy should probably be more priced around $15ish*.** You're also assuming that we're considering it a 2 for 1 deal rather than a special promotion (I am personally unaware of their future pricing intentions). It's possible they were originally going to sell the game for $20 and decided that building up the userbase was essential (it is, this is a multiplayer game despite the (what I consider good) single player) and they could take a loss at the beginning in order to maintain interest.

Secondly, keep in mind that a lot of search engines utilize a range that consists of less than a number. If they priced it at $25, then any search engine looking at <25 wouldn't find it. Some marketing schemes do literally utilize that in order to psychologically psyche you out, but with the internet and search engines available, it's almost a necessity now in a lot of respects.

*Where are you guys getting 24.99? I thought it was 20 for two copies of the game and 24.99 if you wanted the music as well? Because if you guys are actually buying the music option, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
**I'm currently studying at a business school, take that as you will, haha.
tolagali
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by tolagali » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:40 pm

Kitsune wrote:*Where are you guys getting 24.99? I thought it was 20 for two copies of the game and 24.99 if you wanted the music as well? Because if you guys are actually buying the music option, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
http://www.frozensynapse.com/synapsePreorder.html
$24.99 for the 2-Pack, $34.99 for the Soundtrack Edition.

Whether it is a "2 for 1 deal" or a "special promotion deal" does not matter, the label does not change what it is; Two copies for the price of two copies, that is what it is at the moment since it is impossible to purchase and receive a single copy. I fail to see how limiting the options of the customer is supposed to help with establishing a stable user base. In terms of profit a 2-Pack sold at $25 is no different from two separate copies sold at $12.5 each. One might as well buy two copies at $12.5 each and give one of them to a friend, there is no monetary difference between the two ways of doing it.

Regarding $24.99 vs $25: Obviously "less than 25" is not 25. Why would one want a bunch of irrelevant hits when searching for games priced at less than $25? If I can not afford $25 I also can not afford $24.99. It is still a dishonest practice which offers nothing of value to customers.
Dynaheir
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Dynaheir » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:43 am

I bought FS for $16 or whatever it was on the first day Steam sale, only to see it the very next day for $12 (nuuu the $4 I could have saved). I think this game is worth what I payed for it, I would have payed full price for one copy. Just consider the extra copy as, well, extra. It's a bonus.
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