Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

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NDervish
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by NDervish » Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:52 am

limavictor426 wrote:Personally I think this should have been done by subscription. Firstly it stops steam putting a brand new game up in the discount pile.
I'm not privy to the details of Steam's agreements with game developers, but I would be extremely surprised if Steam could unilaterally apply a discount to the cost of a game and reduce the cost per copy that they pay to the developer. Maybe they can offer discounts on their own and take the hit for the reduced price themselves, but they'd need to get the dev's agreement if the discount would reduce what the dev gets paid on each sale.
limavictor426 wrote:Thirdly it can be done at a lower price which stops all you tight arses bitching :lol:
Lower initial purchase price, perhaps, but a substantially higher lifetime cost. FS is not an MMO with a ton of resource-heavy content that the devs add large amounts to every few months, so I highly doubt that it would have gotten anywhere if it was priced like one. I know that I, for one, would not have even considered picking up FS if it would have meant having to pay a monthly subscription fee to play.
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limavictor426
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by limavictor426 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:59 am

I'm not privy to the details of Steam's agreements with game developers
Forbes reports that Steam sales contribute 50 to 70% of the $4 billion market for downloaded PC games, and that Steam offers games producers gross margins of 70% of purchase price, compared with 30% at retail Wikipedia
I couldnt find out who gets to dictate the marketing stratergy but I imagine steam gets a pretty large say in how things are run. I would love to meet the bright spark who decides to put brand new games in the bargin bin.
I know that I, for one, would not have even considered picking up FS if it would have meant having to pay a monthly subscription fee to play.
I was thinking more of a subscription buy in set as a series of options of either 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and 12 months. Thats how LSN was paid for and it worked very well. I always bought a yearly sub but I know lot's of player's used to sub on a 3 or 6 monthly basis.
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
Kitsune
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Kitsune » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:16 pm

limavictor426 wrote:
I know that I, for one, would not have even considered picking up FS if it would have meant having to pay a monthly subscription fee to play.
I was thinking more of a subscription buy in set as a series of options of either 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and 12 months. Thats how LSN was paid for and it worked very well. I always bought a yearly sub but I know lot's of player's used to sub on a 3 or 6 monthly basis.
Regarding the subscription, I have to agree that part of the appeal of this game is that it's a one time cost for an online experience. There's benefits to a subscription based model for the developers for sure, but I wouldn't have bought it either in that case (Just don't like paying monthly fees, haha).
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limavictor426
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by limavictor426 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:07 am

Regarding the subscription, I have to agree that part of the appeal of this game is that it's a one time cost for an online experience. There's benefits to a subscription based model for the developers for sure, but I wouldn't have bought it either in that case (Just don't like paying monthly fees, haha).
Fair enough, looks like im in a minority here. My personal priority when it comes to gaming is finding one I like, and that's rare. Cost is a very distant consideration for me. Most games I buy I never play because I just don't like them enough. If I find a game that I want to come back to Im happy to pay for it , I don't care what it costs.
When Laser Squad Nemesis was up and running I was one of the parties willing to invest money into it to keep it alive but j Gollop wouldn't sell. That would have meant handing over £1000's which would have been a small price to pay to keep it going. Compared to that a few quid a month to play this game is nothing. As it was I used to give away bottles of single malt scotch for competition winners, sometimes the postage cost nearly as much as the Booze!!!
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
hullcrushdepth
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by hullcrushdepth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 4:45 am

Hi, I'm new here but thought I'd weigh in on this debate.

$25 for a game as amazingly fun as Frozen Synapse is a bargain and I was happy to pay that before reading that I got an extra copy for a friend.

Reading the review at Kill Screen http://www.killscreendaily.com/articles ... en-synapse convinced me to shell out immediately. I Gave the free copy to a mate and now we're having tons of fun with it, and we're trying to get more friends to buy it because it's so damn great.

I regularly pay more than double the price for games not nearly as good, of which I only get one copy.
hullcrushdepth
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by hullcrushdepth » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:01 am

Oh, and I'd be against any sort of subscription service. I prefer buying my games as an outright product. And the more games start to use the subscription based system the more you keep on paying and the more annoying it becomes to manage it all. I'm OK paying a once off annual fee for something like Xbox live, but having to pay ongoing costs for individual, 'essential' DLC map packs and the like for individual games is extremely frustrating.

If FS was to go down the subscription path though, in order to keep the game alive, I'd likely still pay for it.
wonderhero
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by wonderhero » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:45 am

wrigley wrote:I have to admit that I've never heard of someone having the perception that a buy one, get one free promotion is considered as being forced to purchase two items. It's interesting how different each person's perceptions are.
Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. :lol:
SamW
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by SamW » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:00 am

wonderhero wrote:
wrigley wrote:I have to admit that I've never heard of someone having the perception that a buy one, get one free promotion is considered as being forced to purchase two items. It's interesting how different each person's perceptions are.
Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty. :lol:
Well you could see it as you have to buy 2, but if you subscribe to the fact that it is a 'special' deal, then really you COULD ALSO see it as the game costs $25 for one copy. I don't know if many people are willing to put down that much money for a single copy of a game of this type.
Basically although they say it is a free copy, some people see this as though it where priced at a level reasonable only for 2 copies.
blueskies
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by blueskies » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:47 pm

I'd like to try this shit at my supermarket. "Hey you know those pizzas that are buy one get one free, well I only want one so can you give me it for half the price?"
Rhynocerous
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Rhynocerous » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:11 am

blueskies wrote:I'd like to try this shit at my supermarket. "Hey you know those pizzas that are buy one get one free, well I only want one so can you give me it for half the price?"
It works at the local supermarkets here, BOGO is really just half off.
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Falcan
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by Falcan » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:39 pm

This game costs twice as much as any other indie game (that I'v bought) thus you are in fact buying two copies of the game, not getting one for free.

So the better analogy is that your buying two pizzas at full price, even though you only want one, and being told to give the other away to help advertise the pizza place.

If the game was not 50% off last week and my brother didn't agree to pay for half of it I would have skipped this game or found someone who had bought it and got their 'free' copy.
wonderhero
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by wonderhero » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:56 pm

Hmmm!
This 25$ must cover the server cost (renting) and maintenance, updates with new FS features, forum and IRC support.
I think this price is not high!
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icebrain
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by icebrain » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:40 pm

wonderhero wrote:Hmmm!
This 25$ must cover the server cost (renting) and maintenance, updates with new FS features, forum and IRC support.
I think this price is not high!
Allow me to laugh !
- renting servers has become pretty cheap
- if the price of new features is included it means that those that will buy it when it is finished will pay an extra - and should we ask for a refund on the features that have been removed ? :-D
- 95% of IRC and forum support is now done by the community, for free - I don't know what's the volume of email support requests compared to those

$25 might have been justified before release when sales were few, but not since release for I estimated that mode7 has been making ≈ $3950 per day.

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wrigley
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by wrigley » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:04 pm

Well, a price is set by the seller based on what they feel is their maximum amount of profit after considering supply vs demand, expenses, etc.

That price would not go down as sales volume increases. Any businessperson who would drop the price at the same time as sales are dramatically increasing won't remain in that business for very long.

However, if many balked at what the public generally viewed was too high of a price for an item, then sales volume would suffer and pricing would then drop.

All that is to say that I agreed to pay $25 for my copy of the game, and I liked the fact that I could send a free copy to a buddy so he could try it out too. But I viewed the extra copy as a bonus, and to be honest, it played no factor in my purchase decision, since being one person, I can only play one copy of the game.

That being said, "bundling" happens all the time in just about every sales environment. Think about the first Nintendo systems with the Mario game, or the Wii with a "free" Wii Sports; or any of your infomercials that say "If you act now, we'll send you a second one absolutely free!"

I would imagine the game devs chose this path because the game depends so strongly on the multiplayer component. You need large numbers in the lobby to generate further interest. If your first batch of buyers started to play multiplayer to find hardly anyone online, the game would stagnant and future game owners would be less likely to stick with it, and ultimately word of mouth would dry up.

But, if you potentially double the size of online players by giving away a copy for every copy sold, you are more likely to build a spike of players online, so when new batches of game owners show up there is a semi-full lobby waiting for them, adding to the game's momentum.

Anyway, those are my two cents, although they are likely worth less than that :)

Edit: fixed typo
blueskies
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Re: Forcing me to buy 2 copies equals no sale...

Post by blueskies » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:25 am

Falcan wrote:This game costs twice as much as any other indie game (that I'v bought) thus you are in fact buying two copies of the game, not getting one for free.
Well I payed $25 for VVVVVV on launch day and I only got one copy. And I was happy with my purchase on that occaision too.

This argument that indie games should be cheaper doesn't hold water, because 1) nowadays most indie games are better than the big titles, they're crafted with love and made by gamers for gamers 2) indie developers deserve your money more. Support the scene.
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