ELO is breaking my heart.

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Majic
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:07 pm

ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by Majic » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:08 pm

I'm level 143.

Best case scenario I play... say a level 50-60 player.
Decent enough opposition to know I'm going to lose at least a unit or two.
I win by a unit in a tough game and I get 0.3 points.

A level 100 player and I get TWO points.

Worst case scenario: a level 10 player hits me with a jesus rocket, I still win by 2 units and I LOSE points.

If he wins [god forbid] by any margin and I lose 20-30 points.

How in the world am I to make that back?

With such diminishing returns I can't really continue to play anymore as this will get worse the more games I play.
It's stopping me from actually playing the game!

I CAN'T PLAY ANYMORE and It's breaking my bloody heart.

I can't play anymore because the opposition isn't there.
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wonderhero
Posts: 585
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:02 am

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by wonderhero » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:45 am

My comrade Majic, level doesn't matter, forget about it. Level reflect only the number of played games and it is not related with Elo.
Ranking scores (your 1622) are matter and are taken into account by Elo system.
So if you want to gain more Elo points then your opponent must have ranking score close to your ranking or greater.
Elo system is great because top players have to work hard to keep their higher ranking positions.

Use the following link to calculate Elo score, but the result are not 100% correct, the formula was slightly changed.
http://error420.com/fs_elo_calculator/

Cheers! >:D<

P.S. If you are not satisfied with your ranking position, then challenge me :P
Majic
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:07 pm

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by Majic » Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:35 pm

That actually makes it worse.
That reduces the pool of people I can play to the top 20.

Out of that top 20 only 4-5 players are active.

If I want to make significant gains I can only play the top 5 and out of that top 5 only you and me are active.

A win should mean a positive score; a draw should be zero at worst regardless of opposition.

The current system actually forces people to play less.
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Scorpion0x17
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:40 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by Scorpion0x17 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:20 pm

Majic wrote:Out of that top 20 only 4-5 players are active.

If I want to make significant gains I can only play the top 5 and out of that top 5 only you and me are active.
I think, possibly, therein lies the problem here - one shouldn't be able to maintain rank by not playing.
trolling [verb]:
Posting with the intention of provoking a reaction.
MjrClanger
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:20 am

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by MjrClanger » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:33 pm

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Majic wrote:Out of that top 20 only 4-5 players are active.

If I want to make significant gains I can only play the top 5 and out of that top 5 only you and me are active.
I think, possibly, therein lies the problem here - one shouldn't be able to maintain rank by not playing.
Depends on if you want the ranking to show who is the "best at the moment" or who is "best ever".
Systems what show "best at the moment" often introduce a point decay for players over a certain value. For example players in the top 20% loose 10 points for every week of inactivity (not a suggestion, just an example :-) ) Forcing them to keep playing to maintain the rank.

Mjr Clanger
wonderhero
Posts: 585
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:02 am

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by wonderhero » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:40 pm

Majic wrote:That actually makes it worse.
That reduces the pool of people I can play to the top 20.
Out of that top 20 only 4-5 players are active.
Not really, try to learn other modes except Extermination and challenge them. You will see that they are a little boring to play just Ext. The other modes are more funny and entertainment. Of course the units composition will be completely balanced with the new open challenge system, I hope.
The current system actually forces people to play less.
Sorry, but I disagree because this actual Elo system makes me to keep playing this game. And I think there more people who think in this way.
A win should mean a positive score; a draw should be zero at worst regardless of opposition.
I agree with that, but only with very few points for a win against low rank player. But the Elo system is already closed as I see and I'm already accustomed with that.
You can still win few points if you beat "well" low rank player. So is not the end of the world.
MjrClanger wrote:For example players in the top 20% loose 10 points for every week of inactivity (not a suggestion, just an example :-) ) Forcing them to keep playing to maintain the rank.
Mjr Clanger
Good idea, also I take it as a suggestion.
Another suggestion will be: inactive players for 1 month will be invisible on rank table. They will appear again once they play a turn.
Majic
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:07 pm

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by Majic » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm

Wonderhero you're correct.

I think the score scaling when you get to the upper reaches of it and how the scoring is between other game gametypes means it's skewed quite heavily to non Extermination games.

My issue with it only really affects Extermination from what I can see.

In other gametypes you are less likely to get a negative score on a win.
Charge especially seems to be a gold mine for points as it's rare you will score less then 40 points on a win whereas in Exterm you'll get that quite regularly.

Take a look at that elo calculator of shrikes:
http://error420.com/fs_elo_calculator/

Stick in my ranking: 1633
Opposition as 1500 [Top 20]

Look at the score spread on Extermination.
and look at the same spread on Charge.

Trying to clean sweep a top 20 player in extermination.

In over 800 games and 650 hours of play I've done that maybe...10-15 times and then only with the right unit composition.

And that will give me 7 points.

Getting those same 7 points in other gametypes. For a win, around 7 points is pretty much default.

I really would like to see a win always give you a positive score and a draw give you zero. Trying to bite back points only playing extermination is daunting.

Btw
wonderhero wrote: Another suggestion will be: inactive players for 1 month will be invisible on rank table. They will appear again once they play a turn.
This is a fantastic idea
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wonderhero
Posts: 585
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:02 am

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by wonderhero » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:16 am

My issue with it only really affects Extermination from what I can see.
In other gametypes you are less likely to get a negative score on a win.
During implementation of Elo system, the idea was to encourage people to play other gametypes too, except Extermination. Unfortunately some imbalanced units compositions are still scaring some players.
From my point of view, the new open challenge system will be more than welcome. For instance I'll be glad to give me an "handicap" (disadvantage) against low rank opponents and have balanced matches vs players with ranks close to my rank. (sorry for my bad English)
I really would like to see a win always give you a positive score and a draw give you zero.
You don't know how many times I sustained this idea, but I was too lonely :)
Actual implementation of Elo request some new features to work perfectly, tut this means program coding and time.
npktqb
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:35 pm

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by npktqb » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:41 pm

Hi people!

As a "traffic light" user, I used to be playing vs "experienced" players every few games.
I feel like this has been rarer lately (maybe such players are playing less / other game types / are mainly challenging each other / ...), and from the leader board/profiles, it's hard to tell if someone :
1- is likely to accept a challenge
2- plays the same game types as me
3- is active

You can answer to #2 & #3 by having a look at all the players profiles, but the process is not handy at all, and planning many turns #1 to play a couple of games is frustrating.

If someday, the open challenge system allows you to define the visibility of a game according to the ELO/rank of the player looking at the list of open challenges - I believe I read something about it on the blog - it would make the process of looking for a game at your level much easier. (use traffic light to play immediately / use the open challenge system to look for a game at your level or create one)

@Majic : I just challenged you, show me your best moves! :)

If anybody here is interested in a game of extermination / disputed / charge, feel free to challenge me! 8) (dark mode preferred)
Majic
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:07 pm

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by Majic » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:19 pm

I'm taking you down npktqb :lol:
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Majic
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:07 pm

Re: ELO is breaking my heart.

Post by Majic » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:19 pm

Down with me by the looks of things.
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