Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

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Projectseph
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Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by Projectseph » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:57 pm

I sincerely hope not.

I honestly think this game is one of the VERY few that was 100% worth the purchase.

It's simple and brilliant.

But I'm finding not too many people play it.
Even when I try talk about it, people say
"Frozen huh?"

It's quite frustrating as the game is great, has a great way of implementing non-linear strategy (as opposed to more...'Governed' games like Chess.) and even hold many tactical training uses such as in the Military (I have played a few similar, yet very flawed and primal attempts at something like this in my military career.)
All of this, and the game seems to me to be falling behind.

In a year are we going to be shut down?
Atm I log on and rarely see more than 40 people on the server at once.

I'm hoping for the best with this particular gem, but I am expecting the worst.

How's it seem to be going from your perspectives?
Scorpion0x17
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by Scorpion0x17 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:03 pm

It's a niche game and always will be.

I just hope mode7 keep the servers up as long as possible, and, when that fateful day comes (as it's bound to), they hand the code for them over to the community so someone can keep at least one going.
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limavictor426
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by limavictor426 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:11 am

'Governed' games like Chess
??????!!!!!!!!!!!
You dont play a lot of chess then?????
How is chess more governed than FS. Each adhere to a strict set of rules, the game itself is as diverse as you make it.FS is in many ways a simple form of chess, I would liken it to a chess game where you only have pawns and rooks but with random piece placement thus allowing the less skilled player more chance to win a few games. You should play some online games, you certainly would never have started this post if this was a chess forum...Ive played chess since I was 7 years old and have never tired of it.
Argument aside, I think FS is always going to be a "niche" game as it does require some cognitive reasoning and thats way over the heads of most gamers LOL :lol: That being the case, its never going to have a massive following but should have good longevity from the hardcore fans.
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
T3rm1
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by T3rm1 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:22 pm

This game is going to die. What are the reasons? The company!

Take a look at the bugs forums. There are so many unresolved issues partly game breaking or just annoying. In addition no one from the devs have talked to the community for months. They just don't care any more about the game or us. They got their money, they made more than the game cost and now they are gone.

I hope this company is going to be ruined. I have absolutely no sympathy with these people and how they treat us. Whatever they do next, I won't support them. Neither should you.

Don't get me wrong. I love the idea of the game. I really do and I enjoyed playing a few games. But if you take a close look you see too many issues with it. Those have to be fixed but nothing is happening any more.
The law in my country allows me to get my money back for a game that has so many bugs and I'm going to make use of it.

I hope other people feel the same way and make sure this company no longer gets their undeserved success. I'm gone.
wonderhero
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by wonderhero » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:37 pm

Scorpion0x17 wrote:I just hope mode7 keep the servers up as long as possible, and, when that fateful day comes (as it's bound to), they hand the code for them over to the community so someone can keep at least one going.
What ? They are not allowed to shut down the server and keep the code in the same time. No matter how few players will be online. FS is a online game.

FS is not dying. There are already dedicated players that will keep it alive, even they take a break from time to time.
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limavictor426
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by limavictor426 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:45 pm

The law in my country allows me to get my money back for a game that has so many bugs and I'm going to make use of it.
??? There is, first Ive heard about it,please enlighten me :)
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
Scorpion0x17
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by Scorpion0x17 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:24 pm

T3rm1 wrote:This game is going to die. What are the reasons? The company!

blah... blah... blah...
J'Accuse!

You're icebrain, with a new account, aren't you?!

And, if not, seriously, if you'd been here for more than a week and a day, or two, you'd know that mode7 have picked up their game in terms of both communications and releasing bug fixes and updates.

Yeah, they may not be the most talkative of devs, but, they're a small team and have to prioritise their resources, personally I'd much rather see them fixing bugs, and creating DLC, than communicating with us all the time.

Oh, and if you decide to leave the FS community and never return, I doubt you'll be missed.
wonderhero wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:I just hope mode7 keep the servers up as long as possible, and, when that fateful day comes (as it's bound to), they hand the code for them over to the community so someone can keep at least one going.
What ? They are not allowed to shut down the server and keep the code in the same time. No matter how few players will be online. FS is a online game.

FS is not dying. There are already dedicated players that will keep it alive, even they take a break from time to time.
I hope they don't ever shut down the servers too, wonderhero, and if they do, as I said, I hope they'll hand the server code over to the community so the game can continue, but 'not allowed'?!

Of course they're 'allowed' to do just that if they so wish - it's their game, and their code, not ours.

Anyway, @OP: from what I can gather some people are waiting for the DLC, and iPad version, but it's clear that games are still being played, so the community, and the game, isn't dead yet.

And you know what the best way to ensure it stays that way is?

Getting involved!

Post on the forums.

Chat on IRC.

Play the game.

Simples.
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Projectseph
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by Projectseph » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:28 am

limavictor426 wrote:
'Governed' games like Chess
??????!!!!!!!!!!!
You dont play a lot of chess then?????
How is chess more governed than FS. Each adhere to a strict set of rules, the game itself is as diverse as you make it.FS is in many ways a simple form of chess, I would liken it to a chess game where you only have pawns and rooks but with random piece placement thus allowing the less skilled player more chance to win a few games. You should play some online games, you certainly would never have started this post if this was a chess forum...Ive played chess since I was 7 years old and have never tired of it.
Argument aside, I think FS is always going to be a "niche" game as it does require some cognitive reasoning and thats way over the heads of most gamers LOL :lol: That being the case, its never going to have a massive following but should have good longevity from the hardcore fans.

Lol, I was waiting for someone who enjoys chess to rebuttal my statement regarding it.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing Chess. Yes it's a tactical game.
But why Do I see it as more "Governed" than FS?
Dark games.- The fact you can hide units Gives a more creative/strategic element.
More Dimensions- The fact You can not only move Up/Down Side to Side and Diagonal (with the exception of the knight) As in chess, But you Can move in any direction however you wish AND you can even crouch down. You can wait, duck, walk left whilst looking right then left then forward then left again. This brings more tactical options to your arsenal. Is just fact. There are a Finite amount of positions on a chess board. Even if it IS a huge number. But in FS there are no 'Squares' governing the position of your men.
The fact you move at the same time WITH more than one unit- No "Blow for Blow" as in Chess. This means, it's more unpredictable. since there are a near infinite amount of possibilities the enemy can take, you need to plan for a whole RANGE of assaults. "Will they move here then duck and wait .3 seconds before charging? Will they move 2 men at the same time to draw my attention before back-stabbing me?" there are so many more planning skills required for FS i find.
Now again, I am not saying chess is not tactically viable. OR not strategic at all. But FS provides much more elements to increase the level of strategic game-play if one so wishes to do so.
Destructible Cover - Again, more elements. Something to hide behind. Crouch behind. Blow Up.

There are many many new elements FS provides in a tactical arsenal that imo provides a more complex strategic potential than an older game like chess.
And why shouldn't it? Its a computer game, it utilizes current technology that enables it to have many more factors than an old wooden board and some carved pieces.

I feel I will need to reiterate this point for some Chess vets who will skim through this in a rage without reading.
I AM NOT HATING ON CHESS. Just pointing out the facts of what FS has that chess doesn't. (Thus my original comment on chess being more governed. More 'Rules or Limits. Or less "freedoms" as in FS does, by definition, mean it is a more governed game. That's all)
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limavictor426
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by limavictor426 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:41 am

I hope they don't ever shut down the servers too, wonderhero, and if they do, as I said, I hope they'll hand the server code over to the community so the game can continue
Wonderhero wrote that from bitter experience, one I was sadly to share. When Laser squad nemesis started to lose a lot of players, mainly in my view due to any support from the developers, they shut the servers down and point blank refused to hand the code over. A few of us including myself offered to buy it from them but they wouldnt even discuss it. They just let the game die. What was worse was they toyed with us, I never believed them when they gave false hope saying we could have the code but many did.....Id never support another game written by them.
I feel I will need to reiterate this point for some Chess vets who will skim through this in a rage without reading.
thats exactly what i did LOL but not with the rage bit :lol:
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
wonderhero
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by wonderhero » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:43 pm

Yes limavictor426, but LSN had a different payment system as you know: season ticket. Play as long as you pay. So shutting down the server is ugly thing but legal in my opinion.

I remember that I payed for a full FS, not season ticket. Once I bought the game I should play 100 years if I want. FS is strongly dependent on a main server. No server no FS. If they stop the server, they must return my money back.
There are only 2 choices: keep the server up or make FS free.
Last edited by wonderhero on Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scorpion0x17
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by Scorpion0x17 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:47 pm

limavictor426 wrote:
I hope they don't ever shut down the servers too, wonderhero, and if they do, as I said, I hope they'll hand the server code over to the community so the game can continue
Wonderhero wrote that from bitter experience, one I was sadly to share. When Laser squad nemesis started to lose a lot of players, mainly in my view due to any support from the developers, they shut the servers down and point blank refused to hand the code over. A few of us including myself offered to buy it from them but they wouldnt even discuss it. They just let the game die. What was worse was they toyed with us, I never believed them when they gave false hope saying we could have the code but many did.....Id never support another game written by them.
Yeah, I totally understand were you and wonderhero are coming from on this, but at the end of the day Frozen Synapse is mode7's baby, not ours, just as LSN was the Gollops', and just as we can not force mode7 to fix bugs and/or implement new features, we can not force them to do any given thing with the server code if/when they decide to shut the servers down.

That's just the way it is, and getting angry, and frustrated, over it is pointless.

Having said that, and as I've already said, I really hope that when that day come they do hand over the code, so the game can continue, but we can't expect them to, nor can we expect them to make any statements on the matter, or, if they do, to stick to them.

It's just the way these things work.

And, wonderhero, no, you paid for a license to play Frozen Synapse under the conditions mode7 chooses, and whether that license is implicit or explicit is irrelevant. You do not 'own the game' you 'own the license to play the game'.
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wonderhero
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by wonderhero » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:53 pm

Scorpion0x17 wrote:you 'own the license to play the game'.
It's the same thing. You can't make a license to disappear.
Anyway this discussion is useless.
Scorpion0x17
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by Scorpion0x17 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:55 pm

wonderhero wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:you 'own the license to play the game'.
It's the same thing. You can't make a license to disappear.
Anyway this discussion is useless.
No discussion is useless wonderhero - it's one of those things that makes our species so successful - our ability to share our thoughts, and ultimately to change the thoughts of others, in a non-coercive manner, via verbal communication.

So, I shall continue...

It's not the same thing because, well, where is this license, wonderhero?
Can you show it to me, and show me where it says that it grants you the right to play the game online in perpetuity?

No you can't.

Because it's not that sort of license.
It's a not a contract.
And it's implicit, rather than explicit.
It's also utterly one-sided.

That's how software does, almost always has, and will always, work.

Even with open-source.
In fact with open-source the license is often explicit and outlines exactly where your freedom to use the source ends.

With closed-source the license does not need to be explicit because it is implied by the very nature of closed-source code.
If you do not have the source-code you can not do whatever you want with it.
I.e. if you do not have the server-side code you can not control whether the servers stay up or not. And having access to the server binaries is just a half-way measure.

Software is a service, and thus will always be controlled by the service providers. The software-as-product model was tried, way back in the beginning of computing, but it died out because it simply does not work.
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limavictor426
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by limavictor426 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:28 pm

I concur What Scorpion0x17 said :shock: Probably :lol: ... The dude obviously knows his subject.
"Good play inspires luck,bad players moan about it"
wonderhero
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Re: Is Frozen Synapse going to die out?

Post by wonderhero » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:51 am

Scorpion0x17 relax, they will not kill the game that brought them glory. They don't want to dirty their image.
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