Thoughts on riot shield?

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eyci
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:43 am

Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby eyci » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Just wondering what players' thoughts are on this new unit. Personally I enjoy playing with it because of the new tactical options it opens up. Although at times to me it seems a bit overpowered e.g. can allow units to cross wide open spaces by repeatedly breaking LOS.

So, how are u finding this unit? Do you think it is a good addition to the game / preserves game balance? What are some of the interesting uses you have found for it?

eyci
Scorpion0x17
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby Scorpion0x17 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:35 pm

I similarly have mixed feelings about it.

But, it's like any of the units - it opens up, and closes down, a variety of tactical avenues, and it's up to us, as players, to learn what those are, and what counter-tactics one can employ.

It doesn't, as some will say, 'break' the game, imo, but it does make it 'different'.
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whisky_bravo
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:07 am

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby whisky_bravo » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:02 am

I was a bit disappointed with it - I was hoping for a unit which could move (very slowly) while holding a shield, allowing for SWAT-style tactical room entries.

Two main criticisms:

- If you get a riotshield in a game of Disputed and your opponent doesn't, you have a great advantage. Just use it to run around picking up boxes in open spaces, can break LOS as often as you like to prevent getting shot. Hard to counter.

- Opposing units can just walk straight through the shield and shoot the riotshield unit at point-blank range. WTF. Shield needs to be impassable like all other cover, otherwise it's a dead man (woman) walking unless you have another unit to cover it (which is absurd for a solely defensive unit).

I'm not super excited about them but don't mind getting one in my squad either.
eyci
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:43 am

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby eyci » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:21 am

whisky_bravo wrote: Shield needs to be impassable like all other cover, otherwise it's a dead man (woman) walking unless you have another unit to cover it (which is absurd for a solely defensive unit)


That makes sense to me, since the shield can already be used to bounce grenades. I suspect it might make unit pathing somewhat troublesome though.
whisky_bravo
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Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby whisky_bravo » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:26 am

eyci wrote:it might make unit pathing somewhat troublesome though

True I hadn't thought about that - there would exist the possiblilty that your opponent might place a riotshield in the path of one of your units causing it to get stuck face-first against the shield... which we all know is a bad way to spend time in a fire-fight!

But I still don't like the fact that you can just walk through them...
Scorpion0x17
Posts: 508
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Location: Cambridge

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby Scorpion0x17 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:48 am

whisky_bravo wrote:don't like the fact that you can just walk through them...


Gotta agree with that - they can stop bullets, and grenades bounce right off of them (hmm... has anyone tried hitting them with rockets yet?), but you can walk straight through them!

Erm?! In what universe is that even vaguely logical!?
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whisky_bravo
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Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby whisky_bravo » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:33 am

Scorpion0x17 wrote:In what universe is that even vaguely logical!?

A universe where the men go out to fight and take their women with them to use as human shields?

As an aside, I think an awesome new unit would be an attack dog - fast but not able to kill; when it reaches an opposing unit it holds it where it is (like a police dog) - held unit unable to shoot the dog (but maybe still able to shoot elsewhere with limited accuracy?). That way you could send a dog into rooms blind and hope that it didn't get shot before reaching any opposing units inside... or release it when an opposing unit is making a break for it across an area of no cover.

I can just picture some poor unit desperately firing off pot-shots with an Alsatian clamped to one arm, while the enemy closes in....
Slow Dog
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby Slow Dog » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:40 am

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
whisky_bravo wrote:don't like the fact that you can just walk through them...


Erm?! In what universe is that even vaguely logical!?


The same one where you can also walk straight through other people? :)

(hmm... has anyone tried hitting them with rockets yet?)


Impacting rockets detonate. It was a surprise to me, though my opponent (i.e the one with the rockets) clearly knew what he was doing.

They're also surprisingly poor against Snipers. That is, the walk-stop-walk dance that leaves enemy MGs impotent doesn't have the same effect, and the shield instead often ends up dead when it moves again. The sniper maintains aim while the shield's up, or something.


As for an opinion, mostly I agree with your first post. They're an additional tactical option, and no more or less overpowered than the other units, depending on the situation.
wonderhero
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:02 am

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby wonderhero » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:07 pm

Riot Shield can be used only on Extermination mode. For all other modes he is IMBA and ruin brake the game. He can easy reach to secure zone, bid line and can easy collect boxes. Very hard stop him. Riot Shield brings new strategic elements but denies the old ones.
Forzen Schnapps
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:16 pm

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby Forzen Schnapps » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:53 pm

I agree with some previous posts: deflecting grenades and letting detonate rockets...but other units can walk through -.-

Riiiiight...It would be more interesting to use a close by unit to force it to turn, and then use another unit to pick on the
riot shield from behind. But then again, this would imply a logic on "when to turn" which is not the simples task, if not
impossible/playable. Also, if the shield would be non-walkthrough, then what happens with only 2 units left, 1 on 1. The
riot shield could not eliminate the other as it has no means of attack...same goes for the other unit (implied: it is not
a rocket/grenade unit)

Another observation which a friend and I made: the AI does not seem to be able to deal with riot shields?! We positioned
2 riot shields at a window each. The enemy kept running past them or even just staying there, without doing anything!
Like: they detected us, saw there could not be done enything due to the shield...but they did not attempt an attack by
taking over the building from the other side...which makes the AI rather obsolete/very very boring?

Anyone else made this or a similar observation?
Maetco
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:07 am

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby Maetco » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:18 pm

IMO riot shield is the worst unit (in game design way not in the way that I would never want to have one in my team) in the game but it's a nice addition. As long as both teams are identical there shouldn't be any IMBA situations because what ever your opponent can do so can you and vice versa. Eg in charge if the teams have a riot shield then both will bid further because it's easier to get there with riot shield. I wouldn't be ready to bid to the opponents end even with a riot shield. Shouldn't isn't the same as there aren't but it's close enough for me because not everything in the game is always 100 % balanced (not all maps follow a mirror design, elimination start from a "situation", etc.) Also no team should have more than 1 riot shield because they can't kill anyone in anyway. As long as these two simple 'rules' are followed they are imo a nice and a welcomed addition which makes the game more varied.
wonderhero
Posts: 585
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:02 am

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby wonderhero » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:26 am

This post remember of what jonwong said about 50% psychology:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4645

With Riot Shield I can say that the psychology can reach to 90%: guessing what your opponent will do with his Riot.
Simple Riot Shield ruins every tactic of Secure/Disputed/Charge mode. Completely boring on Extermination. Riot Shield is useful on that mode with citizens.
Riot can advance interrupting any direct fire enemy units. You need luck to stop him.

Guess where the enemy shield will be orientated when your grenade/rocket explode ? No tactic, just luck.
How can you plan to stop an enemy Riot Shield to reach his bid zone, using your MG/SG/Sniper, if all opponent units are stacked together behind his Riot ? You just need luck because is too much micromanagement of Riot Shield's orders.
Space Voyager
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:01 pm

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby Space Voyager » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:18 pm

I have no problems with riot shield's plausibility. As long as it works the same for both sides, the rules are even.
Zlabi
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:39 pm

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby Zlabi » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:02 pm

The riot shield is simply too hard to kill with direct fire units and completely ruins Charge, Secure and Disputed (and probably Hostage even more than it was already). In Extermination they're not OP, but a huge pain in the ass and boring IMO.
The only game mode where I consider them viable is Upload, for which they were intended I guess. You have a way to protect your totally defenseless NPC and you don't have to worry about killing the enemy riot shield (at least it's not your priority).

But it doesn't bother me that much tbh, because I'll simply not play games (except Upload), where either I or my opponent have a shield :) .
BigBobr99
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:10 pm
Location: Russia

Re: Thoughts on riot shield?

Postby BigBobr99 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:17 pm

Zlabi wrote:The riot shield is simply too hard to kill with direct fire units and completely ruins Charge, Secure and Disputed .


I love the way they work in Disputed. Given that both players have them. You really need that extra protection for units collecting boxs. Adds an extra layer to Disputed in my opinion.

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