Frozen Synapse League

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Krusty
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Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:03 am

Hi all,

I'll be starting a player league for Frozen Synapse soon and i wanted some feedback on what people would like when it comes to playing matches.

1. Should there be a time limit for how long a player takes to perform a turn, and if so how much time should it be?

2. How many soldiers should there be per side?

3. What weapon load out should be used?

4. Do you prefer random maps or pre-made maps?

5. Do you prefer a league style setup where player challenge each other to matches or a tournament tree where players are matched randomly or both?

6. Do you see room for different kinds of competition such as all RPG's, small maps, variable troop amounts and other parameters that are not regular conditions?

7. Should all players be required to submit the game into youtube?

Of course, if you have anything else to say about how a 'professional' league should be setup that I've missed then feel free to post it up.

EDIT 1: The website is now up. frozensynapseleague.com

EDIT 2: The league polls have been created on the league website. Go there to cast your vote on how the league should be run.
Last edited by Krusty on Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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MistaLemur
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby MistaLemur » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:28 am

1. 24 to 48 hours

2. 4 or 5?

3. Random imo

4. Either works; With pre-made maps, there will be deeper strategy/tactics discussion and theory-crafting.

5. I prefer a tournament tree or a ladder with ELO skill ratings.

6. Maybe after an actual competitive organization gets going

7. Why not?
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby dajbozerozum » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:45 am

1. 24 hours is enought for me.
2. 4.
3. Machine Guns, Sotguns only. No Grenades or Rocket.
4. I would like to play on pre-made maps.
5. Both.
6. Not.
7. No need.
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Joshimuz
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Joshimuz » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:20 pm

1. Yea, I think a day is long enough. If people have work or whatever they have plenty of time to do their moves.
2, 3 and 4. Random
5. Probably prefer a Tree set-up
6. Maybe like a fun small tournament, but nothing serious or big.
7. With the issues with Youtube uploading atm I don't think so, besides if there are any issues over both players claiming to have won, you (or another official) can just check the match history and watch the game?

I think having a website or something with a visual tree of players would be great, maybe cast the games on Youtube too? Get the whole e-sports thing going on this.
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:37 pm

Joshimuz wrote:I think having a website or something with a visual tree of players would be great, maybe cast the games on Youtube too? Get the whole e-sports thing going on this.


A website that tracks all the games is being worked on now. I am also working on a part of the website that will allow users to submit youtube vids to be displayed on the website. I really that that if a culture of submitting the matches on youtube can be nurtured, it would help to make the tactics used on the playing field more advanced, and also help new players to learn from the more experienced.

Thanks everyone for the comments so far. If anyone else that is interested could put in their 2 cents, that would be great.
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wonderhero
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby wonderhero » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:39 pm

1. At least 48 hours. Some people have family and job.
2. 4-5
3. Any.
4. Any. Random map can be more funny. Pre-made maps are balanced.
5. Both. But how about to have clans ? Read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2640
6. I have but now is premature to discuss this.
7. Not necessary.

Anyway I propose to not start any tournament or league game until the main server is ready.
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:04 pm

5. Both. But how about to have clans ? Read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2640


The software I'm using to track the matches also caters for team play, so clans/teams will not be a problem.
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CosmicOsmo
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby CosmicOsmo » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:11 pm

1. Should there be a time limit for how long a player takes to perform a turn, and if so how much time should it be?
I think 24 hours per turn is sufficient, 48 is definitely enough. How are you going to enforce this, have the player who's still participating submit screenshots of their completed turn?

2. How many soldiers should there be per side?
3. What weapon load out should be used?
4. Do you prefer random maps or pre-made maps?

The simplest thing is to just go with the automatic Dark Extermination mode, so it'll be 3-4 units, random weapons, random maps. Because there's a lot of randomness in this mode, you balance that out in a league by playing lots of games, not by controlling the conditions (which will just make every game the same).

5. Do you prefer a league style setup where player challenge each other to matches or a tournament tree where players are matched randomly or both?
I'd love to see pool play, with players divided up into divisions of 6-12 players, playing each other player in their division exactly once (or maybe twice?). Then take the top players from each division (based on win-loss record in the division) and seed them into a 16- or 32-person tournament bracket. In the tournament bracket, play at least a best-of-3 series for each match, with longer series for the last 2 or 3 rounds.

Basically, you introduce randomness and excitement by using the default dark extermination mode, then account for that randomness by ensuring that everybody gets to play plenty of games each season, so a handful of games with disadvantaged spawn locations don't screw you over. Pool play can all be done simultaneously, so it won't take forever.


6. Do you see room for different kinds of competition such as all RPG's, small maps, variable troop amounts and other parameters that are not regular conditions?

Not initially. Think about this for Season 2.

7. Should all players be required to submit the game into youtube?
Yeah, but only if the youtube upload feature gets 100% reliable before you start. Consider instead having the replays uploaded onto your tournament website.
Last edited by CosmicOsmo on Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:21 pm

I think 24 hours per turn is sufficient. How are you going to enforce this, have the player who's still participating submit screenshots of their completed turn?


The league software tracks each match and shows the date the challenge was accepted. If the match was not played within 48 hours, the match is a forfeit. I'm hoping that the devs implement a timed turn to help with this. Until then the community will have to police itself to an extent. Either way, I will be implementing some sort of dispute system for issues such as this one.

I'd love to see pool play, with players divided up into divisions of 6-12 players, playing each other player in their division exactly once (or maybe twice?). Then take the top 16 or 32 players from each division (based on win-loss record in the division) and seed them into a tournament bracket. In the tournament bracket, play at least a best-of-3 series for each match, with longer series for the last 2 or 3 rounds.


The play style you mention in the first half of your setup, commonly called round robin, is also possible with the league software.
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Stitch
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Stitch » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:55 pm

I just got the game and i like it a lot. With a lot to learn it seems i can use 8-9 years of R6:Rogue Spear and Ravenshield online experience to some use. Last few years im not much into competition style gaming but a friendly league of some sort grants perhaps a even better learning experience for beginners and experienced players alike.

1. Should there be a time limit for how long a player takes to perform a turn, and if so how much time should it be?
24 to 48 hours sounds good.

2. How many soldiers should there be per side?
2 to 5. Perhaps in a later stadium split the competion and make dedicated 2v2, 3v3 etc ladder/tournaments

3. What weapon load out should be used?
So far i hate rockets and grenades. So i'm inclined to say SM, SG and snipers.

4. Do you prefer random maps or pre-made maps?
Either will do. Random does bring another degree of fun to the game. Keeps you sharp.

5. Do you prefer a league style setup where player challenge each other to matches or a tournament tree where players are matched randomly or both?
I've played ladder in both Rogue Spear and Ravenshield and liked it but wont object to a tree style.

6. Do you see room for different kinds of competition such as all RPG's, small maps, variable troop amounts and other parameters that are not regular conditions?
Not really, apart form dedicated competition for 2v2, 3v3 etc. Maybe 2 competition, one for teams and one for 1v1.
This worked great in Rogue spear.


7. Should all players be required to submit the game into youtube?
yes, better than screenshots of the final outcome

Of course, if you have anything else to say about how a 'professional' league should be setup that I've missed then feel free to post it up.
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby orkboi » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:35 pm

Standard set-ups can provide a really great test of skill, but I don't want a league that's always the same.

What about having seasons of a set length, and then setting paramaters for each season. For example, one season could feature a particular map, loadout, or mode. I really like the bidding modes and don't get to play them often enough. A chase league sounds particualrly interesting to me. I remember with Laser Squad Nemesis, there were some single-map and single-unit leagues that were very fun to play.
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:09 pm

What about having seasons of a set length, and then setting paramaters for each season. For example, one season could feature a particular map, loadout, or mode. I really like the bidding modes and don't get to play them often enough. A chase league sounds particualrly interesting to me. I remember with Laser Squad Nemesis, there were some single-map and single-unit leagues that were very fun to play.


Set lengths for seasons is a given. The way i usually run leagues is have set prams created by the community. After the season ends, the rules and setups are open to critisim by the community. The main points brought up are then made into polls with the outcomes the new prams for next season.

Obviously, the first season will be a learning experience for everyone, so the season will be shorter than a normal season would be. After the first season, all the kinks should be sorted out, (both in the league and the game), and the next season can be run much smoother.
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Stitch
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Stitch » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:27 pm

Maybe talk to devs about the possibility to implement a in-game ranking for the tournaments(in case of a ladder style)?
ncallaway
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby ncallaway » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:39 pm

When would the season for such a League take place?
thyrfa
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby thyrfa » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:29 pm

Krusty wrote:1. Meh, 24-48

2. 3-5

3. for 3- 2 mg, 1 shotgun for 4- 2 mg, 1 shot, 1 rocket for 5- 2 mg, 1 shot, 1 rocket, 1 grenade

4. A semi large premade map pool.

5. If done right, like with actual points and ranks, league style. Otherwise, tourney.

6. Not all RPGs, thats dumb, but the others are fine I guess.

7. Within technical limitations, cuz theres a bug that prevents Macs from uploading games to youtube, so that makes it sorta hard :P

Of course, if you have anything else to say about how a 'professional' league should be setup that I've missed then feel free to post it up.

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