Frozen Synapse League

Organise tournaments and post results here

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Joshimuz
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Joshimuz » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:22 pm

Krusty wrote:
Joshimuz wrote:I think having a website or something with a visual tree of players would be great, maybe cast the games on Youtube too? Get the whole e-sports thing going on this.


A website that tracks all the games is being worked on now. I am also working on a part of the website that will allow users to submit youtube vids to be displayed on the website. I really that that if a culture of submitting the matches on youtube can be nurtured, it would help to make the tactics used on the playing field more advanced, and also help new players to learn from the more experienced.

Thanks everyone for the comments so far. If anyone else that is interested could put in their 2 cents, that would be great.


That sounds awesome, I would totally be behind that :D
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thyrfa
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby thyrfa » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:49 pm

Krusty wrote:
I think 24 hours per turn is sufficient. How are you going to enforce this, have the player who's still participating submit screenshots of their completed turn?


The league software tracks each match and shows the date the challenge was accepted. If the match was not played within 48 hours, the match is a forfeit. I'm hoping that the devs implement a timed turn to help with this. Until then the community will have to police itself to an extent. Either way, I will be implementing some sort of dispute system for issues such as this one.

I'd love to see pool play, with players divided up into divisions of 6-12 players, playing each other player in their division exactly once (or maybe twice?). Then take the top 16 or 32 players from each division (based on win-loss record in the division) and seed them into a tournament bracket. In the tournament bracket, play at least a best-of-3 series for each match, with longer series for the last 2 or 3 rounds.


The play style you mention in the first half of your setup, commonly called round robin, is also possible with the league software.

league software


What is the league software?
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:26 am

When would the season for such a League take place?


Well i still to write up the rules and setup a few things on the website. I also depends on how quickly the community registers to the league website and gives feedback on how they want the league to be run. I'll be adding polls up on the league website soon based on the feedback here.

What is the league software?


It doesn't have a name. Everyone will be given an opportunity to have a play with it. I'll also be setting up a dummy league and tournament so new players can get used to using the software.
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eiphi
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby eiphi » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:41 am

1. max one day (24h)

2. at least four

3. -

4. imo random maps

5. league style setup

6. -

7. yes
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Lobotomy Lobster
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Lobotomy Lobster » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:54 pm

1. 24-48 hours is a reasonable amount of time

2. 3-4. 2 is too few, 5 is too many and makes for clumsy and drawn out games

3. Weapons depends on the terrain, but explosives add a whole new level to the game and most games should have RPGs, grenades or both in some capacity

4. Maps depends on the league structure. If its a challenge based ladder then random is fine. If its a tournament then they need to be pre made to give some consistency (for the love of God no corridor maps). Try to stay away from over designed symetrical maps as they often end up being a lot crapper than they look, especially if they only have a few choke points

5. Either is fine, but I think tournaments would be more interesting as a ladder is just

6. Experimental rulesets are fun occassionally, just keep most of the games to a consistent, normal ruleset

7. Youtube or some other way of submitting games is a must, though I'm not sure youtube itself is the best way to view them
zektiv
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby zektiv » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:52 pm

It seems to me that having anything more than 24 hours would be way to much. Even 24 hours might be pushing it, if you're doing a best out of three series and each game takes 5+ rounds, you're looking at a long time if each turn takes around 24 hours. While that might be rare, it's bound to come up at some point. I can't comment on the rest of the questions as I just bought this yesterday, but having 24 hour time limits on turns seems to be asking for trouble.
MistaLemur
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby MistaLemur » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:47 pm

It sounds to me like it's not best out of 3. A series would make sense in a tournament tree but not in a league-styled ladder.
Though admittedly there hasn't been word on which it's going to be.
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RaG1n
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby RaG1n » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:02 am

Krusty wrote:Hi all,

I'll be starting a player league for Frozen Synapse soon and i wanted some feedback on what people would like when it comes to playing matches.

1. Should there be a time limit for how long a player takes to perform a turn, and if so how much time should it be?

2. How many soldiers should there be per side?

3. What weapon load out should be used?

4. Do you prefer random maps or pre-made maps?

5. Do you prefer a league style setup where player challenge each other to matches or a tournament tree where players are matched randomly or both?

6. Do you see room for different kinds of competition such as all RPG's, small maps, variable troop amounts and other parameters that are not regular conditions?

7. Should all players be required to submit the game into youtube?

Of course, if you have anything else to say about how a 'professional' league should be setup that I've missed then feel free to post it up.


1. I think 36-48 hours would be enough and would help keep the tournament flowing.
2. 3-4, depending on map
3. Mostly random, but depending on map.
4. Pre made maps, perhaps one for each week or 3-4 cyclign between each other. Depending on tournament set up.
5. From tournament experience I think separating in to random "pools" then playing a round robin style tournament (or for flow reasons everyone plays everyone else in their pool at once)
6. I think there could be some really fun ideas for smaller, more casual tournaments that would appeal to some people.
7. I think a tournament match should be played on a tournament server. After the results are processed the players report back somehow quoting the game ID and the outcome. (don't let stats reset from server switches! separate stats for different servers perhaps?)
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:07 am

It sounds to me like it's not best out of 3. A series would make sense in a tournament tree but not in a league-styled ladder.
Though admittedly there hasn't been word on which it's going to be.


A best of 3 is a possibility in a tournament setup, but it depends on how long players expect a tournament to run for. If it's over a few months, then best of 3 is a viable option. Otherwise if the community prefers the tournament to only last for a few weeks then it's not very viable.
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:15 am

The polls for the league are now up on the league website, frozensynapseleague.com. Make sure to get your vote in to ensure the league will cater to your playing style.
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Warskull
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Warskull » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:39 am

Sadly, I don't think this game will be the best fit for tournament or league play until someone puts together a collection of balanced maps. I've noticed that it isn't uncommon for one side to have a significant advantage. So you would need to play large series with random maps to ensure the win wasn't by some fluke. 3 of 5 minimum, 5 of 7 or 7 of 9 possibly. That would be a bit unwieldy though. However, with best of 3 it is pretty easy for one player to get lucky with map pulls and end up beating a superior player.
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:47 am

Warskull wrote:Sadly, I don't think this game will be the best fit for tournament or league play until someone puts together a collection of balanced maps. I've noticed that it isn't uncommon for one side to have a significant advantage. So you would need to play large series with random maps to ensure the win wasn't by some fluke. 3 of 5 minimum, 5 of 7 or 7 of 9 possibly. That would be a bit unwieldy though. However, with best of 3 it is pretty easy for one player to get lucky with map pulls and end up beating a superior player.


I'm hoping the community go the pre-made route, but if they decide on random, then it will be a requirement to use symmetrical maps. If you prefer pre-made, go over to the league site (frozensynapseleague.com) and vote in the relevant poll.
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wonderhero
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby wonderhero » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:30 am

I discovered that in Extermination mode, with no grenades, rockets or shotgun and units starting in opposite corners, the game become boring for me.
Don't forget 2 x MGs vs 2 MGs can be a easy draw if both players don't make silly mistakes.
I wrote about this viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2993
Preedatore
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Preedatore » Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Why not set it up like an actual league? I'll use just some low numbers to illustrate my point, but it could definitely scale up.

Ok, say you have 4 divisions of 8 players. The way we could play this out is the regular season is broken down in to 5 rounds of matchups. Each round would be a 2 week time frame to play all your matchups. Now here is a breakdown of how the matchups could work...

Round 1 - Divisional Round: Players play all other teams in their division. 7 games each.
Round 2 - Div 1 vs Div 2. Div 3 vs Div 4. 8 games each.
Round 3 - Div 1 vs Div 3. Div 2 vs Div 4. 8 games each.
Round 4 - Div 1 vs Div 4. Div 2 vs Div 3. 8 games each.
Round 5 - Divisional Round. 7 games each.

So now after the regular season, 10 weeks, each player has played 38 games. At this point luck is pretty much out the window and the better players will rise to the top. At this point you move to the playoffs where the top 2 teams from each division get seeded and play weekly series'.

Week 1 - Divisional Round: Best of 3
Week 2 - Semifinals: Best of 5
Week 3 - Championship: Best of 7

So thats 13 weeks per season giving an opportunity to have at least 3 seasons per year.

Of course this is a small scale example, but there no reason to believe you couldn't scale it up and have a longer season or playoffs and do maybe 2 seasons a year.
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Krusty
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Re: Frozen Synapse League

Postby Krusty » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:41 am

The way the software works for league competitions is:

1. Players join the league. They are then added into a ladder standings table. Once it hits a certain number of players, a new division is created.

2. Players then challenge each other to matches until the league end date comes around.

3. Once the season is finished, the top x players and bottom x players are moved up and down respectively into their new division.

(OPTIONAL) 4. The administration will then add the top x players from each division in to a tournament for the finals.

Of course there are other options such as round robin, single and double elimination tournaments, last man standing and a regular ladder, but the above example is how the software handles divisinal leagues.
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