Grenade Launcher Bug

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Questar
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Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by Questar » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:21 am

Hey guys, I noticed someone posted a similar topic but it didn't seem to get any attention. I decided to repost this because I think I found out how to replicate the bug. I have had several games where my grenade launcher REFUSES to perform specific actions (crouching/firing) after crouching and standing repeatedly in the previous turn. For example:

Turn 1 I fire my grenade out a window and then have my grenade launcher continuously crouch and stand to distract/have vision of
any incoming enemies. After that turn, my grenade launcher will not crouch or fire a grenade when asked to do so. I had this happen in 2 games now. In one game I kept telling my grenade launcher to fire, and 2 turns later, he did at the VERY end of the turn. This bug happens when you put standing and crouching on a timer (example .2 sec crouch, .4 sec stand, .6 sec crouch...etc.), OR if you use separate waypoints with crouching and standing. It's a pretty big bug as it makes your grenade launcher completely useless.

Please look into it Mode 7!!!
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icebrain
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by icebrain » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:07 am

It's considered more like a feature, but I think that the stance delay shouldn't be cumulative.
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Questar
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by Questar » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:04 am

Thanks for the advice, I will. And that is the problem, its a cumulative effect that gets tacked on after performing all of the actions. It applies to crouching as well as firing. And now that I think of it, I believe it prevented me from moving at all in a game.
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icebrain
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by icebrain » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:01 am

It might be a different bug though than the simple accumulation of delays, cause that's not supposed to prevent other orders. I think there are a couple of reports where the GL would fire on its own.

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wonderhero
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by wonderhero » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:44 am

Accumulation of delays it's a very good thing. With no these accumulation, crouching and standing repeatedly can be an almost unbeatable powerful trick/distraction. It would makes the unit a super hero. Imagine what this means when a direct fire unit is behind a cover and use a lot of:
crouch - stand - [set focus on a target for 0.2 sec] - crouch - stand - [set focus on other target for 0.2 sec]-...etc. No opponent unit can reach to him.
Don't forget that the MG's penalty for stand is 0.5 sec and MG's penalty for open fire on a covered enemy is 0.6 sec.
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jhawk
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by jhawk » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:05 pm

I agree with what wonderhero has said. The delays should accumulate like they do, but there should be some visual cue to give us that information instead of confusing us, as I myself have been confused by it too. Think about it, if the delay didn't accumulate, you could do virtually unlimited (limited only by practicability) amounts of distraction and intelligence gathering with a constant, small penalty. The penalty must be kept proportionately to the advantage gained by such maneuvers, especially because they are very crucial to the gameplay. A self-resetting delay would encourage people to do these maneuvers a lot more often, essentially spamming them wherever possible, which would result in more boring games and tedious, repetitive work just to keep up.
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icebrain
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by icebrain » Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:58 pm

I still don't see the point of accumulating delays - you would have to show me a live example.
Whether a unit does duck/stand once or more it makes no difference because as soon as it does it one time it is disadvantaged.
And even if it has an advantages stronger than this disadvantage, or the enemy unit has a stronger disadvantage, if that enemy unit can't kill the first one, the first time it does duck/stand, then there's no reason that it should be able to kill it any of the following times.

Also the delays only impact the firing, so if you don't fire, the delay (accumulated or not) has no consequence.

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jhawk
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by jhawk » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:50 pm

icebrain wrote:And even if it has an advantages stronger than this disadvantage, or the enemy unit has a stronger disadvantage, if that enemy unit can't kill the first one, the first time it does duck/stand, then there's no reason that it should be able to kill it any of the following times.
That's exactly why the penalty should increase. Distracting a unit for a whole turn should have some more of a consequence than if it's only for a few split seconds.
icebrain wrote:I still don't see the point of accumulating delays - you would have to show me a live example.
Whether a unit does duck/stand once or more it makes no difference because as soon as it does it one time it is disadvantaged.
But knowing that if you use a unit to gather intel for an entire turn renders it useless for combat for most of the next turn (or however long it may be, depending on the rate at which you duck/stand repeatedly) makes it a more serious decision, which I think makes sense because more intel/distraction can have a significant impact on the outcome of the game.
icebrain wrote:Also the delays only impact the firing, so if you don't fire, the delay (accumulated or not) has no consequence.
That's true, but every unit in the game is designed to engage in combat. Shooting at other units is one of the core mechanics in the game, so most of the time you don't have the luxury to not care about the disadvantages of performing the maneuver. If the delay weren't cumulative there would be a strong incentive to do this wherever possible, basically anytime you know that one of your units wont be able to get a kill, such as when you're waiting for other units to get in position, or you're moving a unit to a new spot. I think it would change the way the game plays from making a few smart decisions about when and where you make the tradeoff between combat effectiveness and intelligence gathering, to constant intelligence gathering until an eventual engagement which could keep getting avoided because both players could be getting tons of good information without really having to worry about the next turn. The potency of distractions would be very increased and probably make them annoyingly frequent.
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icebrain
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by icebrain » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:36 pm

To me it's a valid tactic and it's to the other player to counter it. If your unit gets distracted for a whole round then it only means that you planned poorly (especially when you knew who had the advantage). What ever a player is trying to do with duck/stand repetition is not guaranteed to succeed as (as always) it depends on what the other team will do, so I don't see why a unit should be over penalized arbitrarily.
If compared to real life, you'll get very little breathless from one duck/stand and the following duck/stand will not make much difference (I tried just now).
I agree that the delay should increase but only a little, like +1/10 of the previous delay, otherwise we get absurd situation where a unit can't fire for an entire round (remember that there are 2 delays one for duck one for stand).
Last edited by icebrain on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Scorpion0x17
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by Scorpion0x17 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:20 am

icebrain wrote:we get absurd situation where a unit can't fire for an entire round
Is that not what we have already, from the sound of the OP and the other thread on this topic?

(oh, and, I agree with icebrain that such tactics are valid and it's up to the opponent to counter them, however, if the delay mechanism causes the above mention absurdity, then it should probably be looked into (I, myself, have not tested this, so I don't know if the absurdity does occur or not, but I had noticed, in the single player campaign, that grenade launchers behave in a way that no other unit appears to (with regard to delays before doing anything)))
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icebrain
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by icebrain » Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:58 am

[quote="Scorpion0x17"]
Is that not what we have already, from the sound of the OP and the other thread on this topic?

(oh, and, I agree with icebrain that such tactics are valid and it's up to the opponent to counter them, however, if the delay mechanism causes the above mention absurdity, then it should probably be looked into (I, myself, have not tested this, so I don't know if the absurdity does occur or not, but I had noticed, in the single player campaign, that grenade launchers behave in a way that no other unit appears to (with regard to delays before doing anything)))[/quote]
What did this add to the conversation ? nothing.
If there's something that I can't bear it's people who take every occasion to open their mouth while not knowing what they are talking about, increasing their post count and wasting our time in the process.
+100 posts in 2 months ?? zero MP games ?? what the hell !
He's never said anything interesting so I can safely add him to my ignore list and I won't even see his reply. The forum is now suddenly a more peaceful place.


Annnnnnd back to the topic.
Last edited by icebrain on Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Scorpion0x17
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by Scorpion0x17 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:20 am

icebrain wrote:[quote="Scorpion0x17"]
Is that not what we have already, from the sound of the OP and the other thread on this topic?

(oh, and, I agree with icebrain that such tactics are valid and it's up to the opponent to counter them, however, if the delay mechanism causes the above mention absurdity, then it should probably be looked into (I, myself, have not tested this, so I don't know if the absurdity does occur or not, but I had noticed, in the single player campaign, that grenade launchers behave in a way that no other unit appears to (with regard to delays before doing anything)))
What did this add to the conversation ? nothing.
If there's something that I can't bear it's people who take every occasion to open their mouth while not knowing what they are talking about, increasing their post count and wasting our time in the process.
+100 posts in 2 months ?? zero MP games ?? what the hell !
He's never said anything interesting so I can safely add him to my ignore list and I won't even see his reply. The forum is now suddenly a more peaceful place.[/size]

Annnnnnd back to the topic.[/quote]

Reported.
my report wrote:This post is completely unnessecary - it exists only to belittle and attack me. Wether I've played Multiplayer or not, my post count, and how long I have been posting are all utterly irrelevent to the discussion in hand.
My post was not off topic, and icebrain's reply was completely uneccessary, he is simply trolling.
trolling [verb]:
Posting with the intention of provoking a reaction.
cribbit
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by cribbit » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:58 am

Sorry for the relative necro. But this isn't a new issue with icebrain. Anyone who challenges him and starts to win an argument through logic, he quickly resorts to attacking the person rather than the logic and then ignores them.
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icebrain
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by icebrain » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:25 am

cribbit wrote:Sorry for the relative necro. But this isn't a new issue with icebrain. Anyone who challenges him and starts to win an argument through logic, he quickly resorts to attacking the person rather than the logic and then ignores them.
haha, that's defamation, I'm reporting your post. What a bunch of crap actually, you posted solely to make a personal attack against me so it's already clear to everyone who resorts to personal attacks instead of logic.
What do you know about me anyway ?... you suddenly decided to register today and post everywhere.
Lets have fun, link us to where I've done what you say. Oh wait, let me have the pleasure to make the first link, to this conversation on reddit, where with zero experience, not even having read the manual, you attempted to teach me what was what in this game. And when you realised your mistake, you slipped away without a word. hahahaha
EDIT 2011-12-19: hey cribbit where did you go ?! I bet you realised that once again you put yourself into deep shit
cribbit (below) wrote:Where did I go? I didn't go anywhere, I didn't expect you to start flaming me. It's not like I sat around, refreshing the thread, hoping to hear your pretty voice.
Me started flamming you ? bouahaha, pathetic. The problem with you is that you're too stupid to ever make a point. That's why you have to resort to lies to influence the reader.
Last edited by icebrain on Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cribbit
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Re: Grenade Launcher Bug

Post by cribbit » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:52 am

Where did I go? I didn't go anywhere, I didn't expect you to start flaming me. It's not like I sat around, refreshing the thread, hoping to hear your pretty voice.
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