Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

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wonderhero
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Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby wonderhero » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:08 am

First I want to mention that I don't want to talk about wishes list in this special subforum. There is already a thread that debate a huge list of wishes.

I asked some people why they stop playing FS. They told me that they will back if "two weeks timeout" is implemented. Fair enough.
I send PM and asked some top players why they don't accept challenges from any players, like me for sample. After one week when they read my messages they told me that they don't know what kind of player I'm, so they don't know if I will finish the games or I will accept to take first turn. They have right.
Is not a problem for quick players, but for those who spend 30/60 minutes to make a good plan before biding or priming first turn, it will be a waste of time for them if their opponents will not accept to play.

Many players don't use IRC and they read rarely their private messages. Now, there are a few active players, so you have to wait some time to find an opponent. So you have to use "challenge a specific opponent". Even you are the challenger, the map can be very imbalanced for you, so you may not accept even your own challenge. This can be very frustrating because you wonder what your opponent will think about this as he don't know what's your reason.
Of course to not reject your own challenge you can use "advance setup", but you can't guarantee that Charge and Disputed maps will be fair for both players.

So my conclusion is that this game needs a confirmation button for "accepting challenge" or/and a private message for that game. So if a player will reject the challenge then he can write to opponent the reason, something like: "I don't like this map, let's try another", "I consider imbalanced this game", "Sorry, I don't want to play against you because I'm afraid of your rate/experience"
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icebrain
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby icebrain » Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:27 pm

It's something we already knew. We need extended game preferences, we need to see the game before accepting the challenge and we need a working chat system.

N.B. Scorpion0x17 is ignored (don't see his messages) because he doesn't know what he's talking about yet he replies all new threads but solely to increase his post count and argue. (follow the links to understand)
Last edited by icebrain on Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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wonderhero
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby wonderhero » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:30 pm

Yes, but I wanted to remember why this is priority #1.
Improving the units composition balancing should be the second priority to encourage people to play the other modes except Extermination.
Scorpion0x17
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby Scorpion0x17 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:49 pm

Good idea, wonderhero.
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dajbozerozum
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby dajbozerozum » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:48 am

Well... I still don't understand why I cannot accept game while I haven't prime yet the first turn in accual game. Anyway I think that not much players left because the game is very hard.
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wonderhero
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby wonderhero » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:43 am

dajbozerozum wrote:Well... I still don't understand why I cannot accept game while I haven't prime yet the first turn in accual game. Anyway I think that not much players left because the game is very hard.

You know why! Because there is no "accept button". Now "taking first turn" = "game accepted". As you know accepting the game is an important message for your opponent. You must play first turn to know if your opponent accepted the game or not. This means you can lose time planing in vain. To avoid this you must contact your opponent first. Bad way.
Most of people left because there is no penalty for unfinished games.
Scorpion0x17
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby Scorpion0x17 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:29 pm

wonderhero wrote:
dajbozerozum wrote:Well... I still don't understand why I cannot accept game while I haven't prime yet the first turn in accual game. Anyway I think that not much players left because the game is very hard.

You know why! Because there is no "accept button". Now "taking first turn" = "game accepted". As you know accepting the game is an important message for your opponent. You must play first turn to know if your opponent accepted the game or not. This means you can lose time planing in vain. To avoid this you must contact your opponent first. Bad way.


Whilst the above is very true, the following is, as far as I can tell, an unsupported assumption:

wonderhero wrote:Most of people left because there is no penalty for unfinished games.


I think it just as likely that dajbozerozum's suggestion, that people leave the game because it is too hard, is true. However, unless we interview a significant proportion of the people that no longer play Frozen Synapse (at random), we can not say with any certainty what their reasons for leaving are - basing one's beliefs on hearsay is prone to bias.
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wonderhero
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby wonderhero » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:07 am

Scorpion0x17 wrote:I think it just as likely that dajbozerozum's suggestion, that people leave the game because it is too hard, is true.

I read some complaints about the campaign would be too hard, but not MP till now :)
But I heard a lot of complaints about "unfinished games".
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby Scorpion0x17 » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:53 am

wonderhero wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:I think it just as likely that dajbozerozum's suggestion, that people leave the game because it is too hard, is true.

I read some complaints about the campaign would be too hard, but not MP till now :)
But I heard a lot of complaints about "unfinished games".


The people that I've seen complain about unfinished games are still engaged with it - which stands to reason - if you're never going to play the game again, what does it matter if your games go unfinished?

I've yet to see any complaints by people who have abandoned the game completely - which again, stands to reason - again, if you're never going to play the game again, what does it matter if you complain or not?

Now, I'm not saying there is one, and only one, reason that people stop playing the game, and I'm sure for some, who I'm also sure are the more vocal, it's abandoned games, but it simply stands to reason that the, silent, majority, of ex-players, are likely to be leaving for numerous other reasons.

And, the difficulty of the game would seem to be a very good candidate for the reason many of them choose to leave, but that's just my opinion.

Once again, it should be noted, that unless someone finds and interviews and significant, random, selection of ex-players to ascertain exactly why they left the game, we have only hearsay, and, therefor, baseless supposition.
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wonderhero
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby wonderhero » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:11 am

Sorry, my mistake, I meant "no penalty for unfinished games".

I really don't understand why is so hard to fix the implementation of "two weeks time out with penalty" ? For this question I risk again to be called "troll".
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby dajbozerozum » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:18 am

Hm... the truth is that - how many times I can loose in Frozen Synapse matches? You cannot learn map, where double damage is or red armor. There is no way how to takeover rocket launcher spawn. If you will not think how to trick you enemy, you will loose all the time. I understand there is also lot of luck in those few fights but the truth is that FS was created for those who want to think. All other games are just easy. I don't have need to play something else.
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby dajbozerozum » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:58 pm

Match ID: 385190 - People like this one should be banned.
"Personas that are desired by the system itfelf definitely exist in society, and people hunger of them."
wonderhero
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby wonderhero » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:34 pm

dajbozerozum wrote:Match ID: 385190 - People like this one should be banned.

Why ? There is no cheating in that match. Anybody can apply any tactic he wants.
This post should be in other thread.
Scorpion0x17
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Re: Accepting the challenge with two weeks timeout

Postby Scorpion0x17 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:00 am

wonderhero wrote:Sorry, my mistake, I meant "no penalty for unfinished games".


I understood what you meant, and I think my point still stands - the idea, whilst it may be true, that players are primarily leaving for this reason, is hearsay, and, therefor, baseless speculation. And the fact that such players are being heard from suggests that they haven't actually left the game.

wonderhero wrote:I really don't understand why is so hard to fix the implementation of "two weeks time out with penalty" ?


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Maybe it has undesirable knock-on effects. We can not tell.

wonderhero wrote: For this question I risk again to be called "troll".


I don't think anyone has called you a troll, wonderhero, and, I'm sure, if you don't act like one, no one will.

wonderhero wrote:
dajbozerozum wrote:Match ID: 385190 - People like this one should be banned.

Why ? There is no cheating in that match. Anybody can apply any tactic he wants.


I wholeheartedly agree, and, in fact, dajbozerozum, you ably demonstrated why such tactics are not fail-, or fool-proof.
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