The carrier is no chased while throwing

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wonderhero
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The carrier is no chased while throwing

Postby wonderhero » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:47 pm

Thanks to Neofelis's challenges I discovered a new bug if this is not a desired functionality. I reproduced in game ID 920:

Move away the protector (Neo) and if the ball carrier starts to throw the ball then he will not be chased by the opponent bot. If he runs or waits then he is immediately tackled. If the opponent reach the carrier then he will tackle him.
This occurs any stage of the game.

If this is as intended to let the defender to intercept the ball not being interrupted by the chasing mode then the attacker can exploit it in such way:
The attacker knows that the defender will not run to reach the carrier because he can be blocked by the protector. So he can move the protector and let the carrier unprotected. In this way he can gain precious time to reposition his unit. This time is high if the negative release of carrier is bigger.


To solve this problem how about the idea to let the defender to chase the unprotected carrier and possibly make him to intercept the ball while he is chasing ? Of course only if his interception radius intersect the flying ball.

If "intercepting the ball while chasing" is hard to implement then we can live with this because the wait order that already interrupt any possible chase, can be a solution to stop any other exploit.
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Omroth
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Re: The carrier is no chased while throwing

Postby Omroth » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:20 am

Thanks for this detailed description of the problem Wonderhero.

The current situation is intended. I liked the idea that the defender has to choose whether to rush the passer or intercept as a very small mechanic. Do you think it isn't a good decision to have to make?

I like your fix of allowing intercepting while chasing - I will do that if I think we should change this.

Ian
wonderhero
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Re: The carrier is no chased while throwing

Postby wonderhero » Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:31 am

I know what you mean but this chose is not totally free, it is conditioned by the passer action. How about a little tweak:
If the passer starts to throw and the defender runs then he will not chase. But he chases if he has no order.

In other words the defender will start to chase in one of these conditions:

- defender has no order (is stillness). But in this case the defender should be allowed to intercept the ball while chasing.
- defender runs and the passer runs or has wait order

The defender will not chase in one of these conditions:

- defender has wait order
- defender runs and the passer starts to throw.

Image

The idea is to eliminate any kind of exploit or infamous trick for the attacker to win the match. The attacker shouldn't have the opportunity to use the chasing system against defender.

"The defender chases if he has no order and the passer starts to throw" will eliminate the exploit: the attacker moves away the protector knowing the defender won't risk to run toward the passer being blocked by the passer's protector. This will be a dirty trick to reposition the former protector to prepare a safety way for the carrier runner.
But if the players are agree with this risky and "dirty" trick then I can live with this and no change is needed :)

If not then a second change is needed:

"Allowing intercepting while chasing" will eliminate the exploit: the attacker moves away the protector just before the ball flies, in this way he forces the defender to chase losing his interception.

The question is: is it fair for the defender (with no order) to let the nearer and unprotected passer to throw the ball ?
wonderhero
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Re: The carrier is no chased while throwing

Postby wonderhero » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:51 am

It seams that nobody wants to comment. Not even "I agree" / "I'm not agree".
I have a bad feeling that the real reason for this silence is the players gave up until the game release is done.
Well, I have to remind you that after release if you want even a small improvement then you will have to write so many posts and wait at least one year to see something new for this game.
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Omroth
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Re: The carrier is no chased while throwing

Postby Omroth » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:36 pm

The feedback is greatly appreciated Wonderhero.

Ian
grizwalter
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Re: The carrier is no chased while throwing

Postby grizwalter » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:03 pm

Wonderhero....

You really are, my hero!
wonderhero
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Re: The carrier is no chased while throwing

Postby wonderhero » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:47 pm

Thank you grizwalter, Ian...but still not other opinion.

OK, one more try with other argument:

We tend to believe that the trick itself is balanced by the trick's counter, but we have to ask ourselves if both players have the same control over the trick.
Unfortunately the attacker has the control of the trick: he chooses if will let his passer unprotected or not and if yes then when he will do it.
The defender with no resilience have to know those 2 things before risking to tackle the passer. So the risk is much more bigger for the defender than the attacker.

A good defender will never try to counter this possible trick unless he knows very well his opponent's play style. It's funny, but unfortunately many players will say: "Why my defender didn't chase and tackle the unprotected enemy passer ? Is this a bug ?"
The answer: "No, it's a rule of the chasing system: if the passer is throwing the ball then will be no more chase".

If we want to help the attacker to find more ways to get a touchdown then it's welcome. But right now, after update, I feel the defender needs a help here. Especially as the "invincible time" is bigger now.

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